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#11
11-14-2007, 07:04 PM
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Re: $16 - KK 1st hand
[ QUOTE ]
I raised too 600, the flop came Axx, we both checked and he bet about half the pot on turn and I was realy in a sick spot. Guess it's too risky with Kings. [/ QUOTE ] Why do you assume he has an ace on the turn? Why did you check on the flop? 
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#12
11-14-2007, 07:08 PM
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Re: $16 - KK 1st hand
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I raised too 600, the flop came Axx, we both checked and he bet about half the pot on turn and I was realy in a sick spot. Guess it's too risky with Kings. [/ QUOTE ] Why do you assume he has an ace on the turn? Why did you check on the flop? [/ QUOTE ] If you bet, you want to achieve one of the following benefits: a) a stronger hand folds b) a weaker hand calls both won't happen very often here. Prolly he will pay you with QQ sometimes, but clearly no ace is folding + weaker hands are usually drawing thin, two outs.
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#13
11-14-2007, 07:11 PM
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Re: $16 - KK 1st hand
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I raised too 600, the flop came Axx, we both checked and he bet about half the pot on turn and I was realy in a sick spot. Guess it's too risky with Kings. [/ QUOTE ] Why do you assume he has an ace on the turn? Why did you check on the flop? [/ QUOTE ] An ace is very likely in his reraise - call range. He would probably push with QQ+. And probably do this with TT/AK/AQ. Also, the pot was so big that it was either playing for (a big part of) my whole stack or fold and have 900 chips left.
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#14
11-14-2007, 07:13 PM
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Re: $16 - KK 1st hand
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I raised too 600, the flop came Axx, we both checked and he bet about half the pot on turn and I was realy in a sick spot. Guess it's too risky with Kings. [/ QUOTE ] Why do you assume he has an ace on the turn? Why did you check on the flop? [/ QUOTE ] An ace is very likely in his reraise - call range. He would probably push with QQ+. And probably do this with TT/AK/AQ. Also, the pot was so big that it was either playing for (a big part of) my whole stack or fold and have 900 chips left. [/ QUOTE ] ot: sleeping in sttf is fun, isn't it. I do this pretty often too haha on topic: that's why I'd just push pf. stacks are too small to 4 bet in sngs.
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#15
11-14-2007, 07:39 PM
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Re: $16 - KK 1st hand
I shove here about 90-95% of the time, but against some really aggro fishy villains I like flatting here and getting the money in on any non-ace flop. It's a sort of an audible play, maybe a little spewy, but shoving is so standard that I think having an alternate play is ok.
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#17
11-14-2007, 08:50 PM
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Re: $16 - KK 1st hand
I would have shoved - position is also a determining factor here.
What did you do in that spot? Did you get to a showdown?
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#18
11-14-2007, 11:33 PM
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Re: $16 - KK 1st hand
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I raised too 600, the flop came Axx, we both checked and he bet about half the pot on turn and I was realy in a sick spot. Guess it's too risky with Kings. [/ QUOTE ] Why do you assume he has an ace on the turn? Why did you check on the flop? [/ QUOTE ] If you bet, you want to achieve one of the following benefits: a) a stronger hand folds b) a weaker hand calls both won't happen very often here. [/ QUOTE ] Well, there are other reasons for betting if you mean that very generally, but if I'm not betting on this flop, I do not have a sick spot on the turn, because I'm folding any non-K turn. I was just curious why he didn't, to get insight into his thinking. [ QUOTE ] Prolly he will pay you with QQ sometimes, but clearly no ace is folding + weaker hands are usually drawing thin, two outs. [/ QUOTE ] If you were him, are there no players you would fold an ace again? Of course, you're not likely to be at that flop with A8s, but...
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#19
11-14-2007, 11:34 PM
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Re: $16 - KK 1st hand
[ QUOTE ]
I shove here about 90-95% of the time, but against some really aggro fishy villains I like flatting here and getting the money in on any non-ace flop. It's a sort of an audible play, maybe a little spewy, but shoving is so standard that I think having an alternate play is ok. [/ QUOTE ] To be honest, I think that mattie's hand shows why the push is standard, and I don't see why I need alternative plays against people who have no idea who I am or what I do.
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#20
11-14-2007, 11:48 PM
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Re: $16 - KK 1st hand
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I raised too 600, the flop came Axx, we both checked and he bet about half the pot on turn and I was realy in a sick spot. Guess it's too risky with Kings. [/ QUOTE ] Why do you assume he has an ace on the turn? Why did you check on the flop? [/ QUOTE ] An ace is very likely in his reraise - call range. [/ QUOTE ] Yes, I agree. I hate this flop after your preflop action because I think I cannot win, can only lose (like sence points out, everything you beat can fold if you shove the flop and you're not likely to fold anything out that you beat). If I don't feel he can have called enough of a range preflop, I don't think you have a bad spot here; I think you have a straightforward fold. But I'm concerned that a player who calls your PFRR is bad enough to have a wider range than we are crediting here. [ QUOTE ] He would probably push with QQ+. [/ QUOTE ] Preflop? [ QUOTE ] And probably do this with TT/AK/AQ. [/ QUOTE ] You think he calls a decent reraise with those hands? Why wouldn't he just shove? And if he calls a big reraise with AQ, why wouldn't he call it with 99-77 or some other stuff, such as KQ, KJ etc, particularly if those hands are suited? Yeah, those hands do not call a flop push, but they might have a nibble on the turn. [ QUOTE ] Also, the pot was so big that it was either playing for (a big part of) my whole stack or fold and have 900 chips left. [/ QUOTE ] Well, the pot's only big because you made it big. As played, I'm probably crediting him for an ace too, but I was curious about how you had thought about it.
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