Straight flush mucked at 200nl Foxwoods?

[bernie]

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Hero becomes furious, claiming nobody turns their cards up over the line at the table and says anything like "I had you til the [censored] river" when they're are going to be calling.

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You took your fury out on the wrong person. Unless you really want to just win a pot on a technicality. The guy to be pissed at is the showdown mope.

It sucks that it happened, but let it go. I'd be more concerned with making sure the idiot knows to shut his yap when not in a hand.

b

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Considering the muppet with the mouth in this case was barely spoken to and not punished in any form. Hero lost real $. Villain would not have won that $ if not for the muppets' comment. How do you implement any justice here?

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Real $: 1st off, 1 pot isn't the end of the world. Remember, hero lost money because of a technicality. It just happened to be a gift that was taken back because the guy misread his hand and another guy was an idiot. If you really want to put this in long terms, you lost only pennies in comparison to how often this will happen. The expectation of someone folding a better hand like that is pretty low.

Yes, it sucks it happened. I'd make more of an issue about the player with the mouth. You may also sound like a prick for doing that, but I'd still do it. The reason people(more casual players) would think it's prickish is because many may only see it as you angling for the pot when you're really talking about influencing action during a hand. Just a note as to how it may come across. Again, I'd push it on that factor. I wouldn't push for me getting this pot.

Unfortunately, there is no real 'justice' to be had. It won't be the last time something like this happens. You basically have to just suck it up and move on. The only thing you can really do is try to make it so it doesn't happen with any consistency in your room. Sometimes you have to wake up some of the workers in there to keep the main game mechanics going.

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[IgorSmiles]

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If angling is condoned give pot to str8 flush else to AJ

I don't understand why Vilian would say he "had him until river"

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This is not an angle. There is an expression for it. It's called a "crying call." So far, villan is crying, unless youre a psychic, how can you know if he plans to fold just based on this? It sounds to me like even he doesnt know yet. He's pissed off that he got sucked out on but is just as likely to call as fold.

[bernie]

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Hero becomes furious, claiming nobody turns their cards up over the line at the table and says anything like "I had you til the [censored] river" when they're are going to be calling.

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You took your fury out on the wrong person. Unless you really want to just win a pot on a technicality. The guy to be pissed at is the showdown mope.

It sucks that it happened, but let it go. I'd be more concerned with making sure the idiot knows to shut his yap when not in a hand.

b

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Considering the muppet with the mouth in this case was barely spoken to and not punished in any form. Hero lost real $. Villain would not have won that $ if not for the muppets' comment. How do you implement any justice here?

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You don't implement justice, the floor does. Until you start working for Foxwoods its not your yob mang! Complain to the floor next time, explain how his actions cost you significant amounts of dolla bills. He will give the guy a time out or something but your not getting your money back.

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Is that ok with you if that was the ruling? What is your personal opinion, as both Hero and Villain?

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The best you might hope for is the villain being willing to split the pot. But, as I mentioned earlier, railing for the pot can easily look like an angle shot so you'll be doing an uphill battle.

I would fully expect the ruling to be the other guy gets the pot.

How I'd have handled it as the villain is probably completely different than 90+%(kind estimate) of the everyone else in the room.

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[IgorSmiles]

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turns up 35h in front of his stack and across the line on the table

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This is tabling a hand, which is more indicative of intent to call then intent to fold

[bernie]

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Crossing the line does not determine a bet, raise or fold.

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Room depending.

My room, it's it's ruled a bet.

Betting lines suck.

As far as it being considered a fold? Usually it isn't, but it's much more subjective.

b

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Bernie - even in your room the line is a primary measure but not an absolute measure. They will allow other factors to weigh a decision, consider it like the muck - everyone thinks its magical but in reality cards can be fished out if its in the best interest of the game and the cards can be determined.

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In my room, if someone came across the line and took their chips back, and there was a bet out, the call would stand if it went to the floor(some dealers are more lenient with the commit line). They're pretty black and white about that in there. Not that I agree with it, but I do commend them for consistency.

But as far as it being a line for 'mucking'. Usually it's not the line that's the factor that I've seen, but the intent and the cards just going towards the muck. Face up cards is a little grayer as now they have to be subjective to what the dealer, players and the now holding onto his cards for dear life player says.

I agree with you that there's very little chance OP is getting this pot.

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[bernie]

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Bernie - even in your room the line is a primary measure but not an absolute measure. They will allow other factors to weigh a decision, consider it like the muck - everyone thinks its magical but in reality cards can be fished out if its in the best interest of the game and the cards can be determined.

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I promise you that in my room during my shift, even if a card just barely grazes the muck on accident, the hand will be declared dead. I've gotten one shift manager to discuss the silliness of Magical Muck, and he seems halfway to understand intent, but is still vague and confusing with implementation. Muck dissolves cards, bottom line.

I, of course, think that's insane, and much more go with intention and best interest of what's fair.

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I think this usually goes in hand with a lazy floorperson who's more interested in standing by looking cool in a suit than actually looking out for the best interest of the game.

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[IgorSmiles]

Betting lines are for betting. Nobody considers face up cards mucked because they are in front of the betting line. Especially if they are "turned up" and not "tossed" or "thrown" there.

[bernie]

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0524432, what would your opinion be if the loudmouth hadn't said anything, but the villain had said "I had you til the [censored] river....Wait!! Holy [censored]! I have a straight flush, I call!" after flipping his cards?


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In this case, because anyone in their right mind realizes, NO BO DY that is going to make a call, says what he said, and flips their hands toward the muck, period.

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You might be suprised.

I've watched a guy call after seeing a guy with a tabled hand that beat his bet into him. Basically, there were 3 guys in the pot at the end. Guy A(best hand) bets. Guy C calls out of turn. Guys A & C flip their hands, but Guy B hasn't acted yet. Guy B was given the option of action. He can clearly see both hands. He lights his money on fire and throws it in the pot.

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[bernie]

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Friend of mine played a hand recently....

Friend has AJ....he bets a Jxx flop
He check calls the K turn.
He check / calls the river.

Villain says "I have KJ"
Friend says "Oh crap", turns his cards face up and pushes them about 3 inches towards the dealer.

Villian then shows 95, not KJ. He has nine high.

Dealer says hero folded and awards pot to villain. Hero calls for floor who confirms ruling.

All other players complain but floor stands by his decision.

This is at Paris in Vegas (which I know is a stupid place to play poker but still....) What a joke.

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Dealer doesn't know the difference between a fold and a tabled hand that initiates cards speak?

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[bernie]

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RESULTS of OP......


2 floor mangers decide that because the 35h which Villain held did not TOUCH the pile of mucked cards, the hand was live. Mouth muppet was reminded of the 1 player per hand rule and allowed to continue playing, Villain never said another word until Hero (myself) left the table after verbally tearing the muppet and the floor, a new [censored].

This was about a year ago, and I still fume when thinking about it. IMO....nobody who is making a call makes the comment, and takes the action (flipping cards up over the line he considered mucking obv) that Villain did. If it were not for a comment made by another player, I would have been shipped the pot, period. Giving the Mouth Muppet some sort of ridiculous [censored] timeout, doesn't get me my $ back, wtf good does it do me for him to stand in a [censored] corner for 10 minutes, I want my [censored] money.

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Wow.

Wish I'd have read this before I continued to respond in this thread.

Get over it.

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