early in turbo 12 180pp...mother of all BB specials! line check

[ssnyc]

very early and no reads...street by street okay here? River overbet is best option rather than a value bet?

Poker Stars
No Limit Holdem Tournament
Blinds: t10/t20
6 players

Stack sizes:
UTG: t1480
UTG+1: t4560
CO: t1480
Button: t3000
SB: t1480
Hero: t1500

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is BB with 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
UTG calls t20
UTG+1 calls t20
CO calls t20
Button folds
SB calls t10
Hero checks.

Flop: (t100) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks
Hero bets t60
UTG folds
UTG+1 raises to t120
2 folds
Hero calls t60

Turn: (t340) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks
UTG+1 bets t140
Hero calls t140

River: (t620) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero is all-in t1220
UTG+1 calls t1220

Results:
Final pot: t3060

[bokunori]

How did he come by that stack?

[ssnyc]

dunno but since I've seen villan play sick lose bad poker so I guess randome luck

i like your your line, especially the rivershove. Since he is a donk he will not notice your shove to be a monster sometimes. He prolly has a pair high enough to call push.

[sapsuckah]

This hand is a great example of why making little bet size adjustments early in a hand can make a big difference.

If you had bet 80 on the flop -- just a 20 chip difference -- it's still gonna get called by anyone who would have called 60. The chances you'll lose someone because of betting 20 more are very small. Now, his minraise would have been for 160 instead of 120 and there would have been 420 in the pot after the flop rather than 340.

Then on the turn, you can argue for a pot-building bet here since he clearly likes his hand and he most likely just made his boat. As played, though, his turn bet would likely have been bigger (say 200) and your call would have made the pot 820 after the turn.

Effective stacks at that point would be about 1100, which makes pushing the river much more likely to get called than the 2x pot river push you did.

I don't mind at all how you played it but it looks like all the chips were fated to get in the middle regardless. But if he had had a slightly more vulnerable hand, doing a better job of building the pot could have made the difference between stacking him and letting him get away with 1200 chips that might otherwise be yours.

Matt

[JammyDodga]

[ QUOTE ]
This hand is a great example of why making little bet size adjustments early in a hand can make a big difference.

If you had bet 80 on the flop -- just a 20 chip difference -- it's still gonna get called by anyone who would have called 60. The chances you'll lose someone because of betting 20 more are very small. Now, his minraise would have been for 160 instead of 120 and there would have been 420 in the pot after the flop rather than 340.

Then on the turn, you can argue for a pot-building bet here since he clearly likes his hand and he most likely just made his boat. As played, though, his turn bet would likely have been bigger (say 200) and your call would have made the pot 820 after the turn.

Effective stacks at that point would be about 1100, which makes pushing the river much more likely to get called than the 2x pot river push you did.

I don't mind at all how you played it but it looks like all the chips were fated to get in the middle regardless. But if he had had a slightly more vulnerable hand, doing a better job of building the pot could have made the difference between stacking him and letting him get away with 1200 chips that might otherwise be yours.

Matt

[/ QUOTE ]

Nice post, you been reading bonbds bet sizing guide huh?

[ssnyc]

once again I may have been getting fancy without needing to...I wanted my small bet call to look like a flush draw...at the same time I was hoping to see if I was against a flush draw (if villan just flatted)...yes this line of reasoning was running through my head...rep flush draw and push river as if busted

[Super Villain]

sapsucha is bringing up a valid point (thanks Bond)

The only think I didnt like about the line is the size of the river shove in relation to the pot. You are shoving and getting way too much fold equity than you want the pure nuts.

There are 2 ways to correct this which is to put out a pot sized bet and hope to get raised, or to check raise all in. I do hate both of those because it is very easy to let your opponent off easy ie: he checks or calls the pot sized bet.

As played not bad, I like it better than the two above mentioned options. I just try to get the river bet to look more natural w/ bigger bet sizes and maybe a c/r on the turn. That would put some more money in the pot and make your river bet more of a pot sized bet. That is IF we think that a check raise on the turn won't clue him in. Anyone else see this as a line?

turn: Hero Checks// Villain bets 140// Hero raises to 300-350ish// villain calls

River: Hero leads 1000-1050ish all in into a pot of 850-950ish

What do we think of this line?

[erc007]

I'd prob c/r the turn. Once he bets out, he's not folding and it would suck to have an A or a Broadway card hit the river and kill your action. You want to build the pot, so it's easier to get it in on the river if he just calls your c/r.

[PrimetimeUNH]

I think your line is interesting, but I'd probably c/r to 500 on the turn then push the river.