"This war is lost" - no it's not! - question for war supporters

[ikestoys]

[ QUOTE ]
It's lost when we stop fighting

No, it's over for us when we stop fighting. It's lost now. Our allies have left or are leaving. The majority of Iraqis want us gone and believe that attacks on US troops are fine and dandy.

In a year, 1200 more American soldiers will be dead, 40k+ more Iraqis will be dead from violence, and we will be no closer to "winning" in Iraq than we are now, because there is no definition of victory beyond "whenever HeavilyArmed isn't scared no more". Once HA's convinced that 1 billion muslims been sufficiently awed by our ability to fail spectacularly in Iraq, that's when our soldiers can come home.

The occupation has failed. We need to aggressively pursue a partition of the country with Iran and Saudi Arabia publicly playing the roles of sponsors they play covertly now.

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I'm not saying the occupation is/will be successful, but 1200 troops dead by the end of the year is definitely physically sustainable by the military.

[MoreWineII]

Soldiers rely on a chain of command that is rarely questioned... so relaying soldier's opinions of Bush as your evidence the war is working makes little sense.

War with Islam..ugh.

Grandiose claims of violence on American soil if we leave Iraq...ugh.

Arguments with war supporters usually go nowhere because they refuse to focus on what is actually happening - what you can verify as fact if you use a bunch of different sources - and will instead bombard you with doomsday scenarios if the US leaves based on half-truths that they've been fed by the Bush adminstration and other neocons. Since a person of even average intelligence should by now be able to see through this smokescreen...like I say tough to argue against them.

[Felix_Nietzsche]

http://www.drudgereport.com/flash1.htm
A marine speaks to that "douche" Harry Reid

[Utah]

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It's lost now

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Is the enemy at the gate? Are we about to be overrun? Are we losing any major battles? Are we suffering any staggering loses? Is there any enemy land we are unable to march over?

The occupation is a mess and I think one can argue intelligently that we should leave. However, it is just absolutely silly to say it is lost. Heck, we could turn the place into a parking lot if we wanted.

[MoreWineII]

Um, turning Iraq into a parking lot is a loss for everyone. The thing about this elusive "win" in Iraq, I can't ever seem to find out what it means. Supporters are like KILL TERRORISTS KILL KILL and then when you ask "Okay, then what?" you usually get a blank stare or an uncomfortable silence.

It's pretty clear that al-Maliki and the Iraq gov't (lol) are not on the same page as the US and that cooperation between the two is the BASIS FOR THE ENTIRE [censored] OPERATION. So yeah, clusterfuck imo

[ikestoys]

MoreWineII-

your definition of lost seems to be not going well. I agree that its not going well, but in this case its really not over until we say its over. At what point you decide that is up to you.

[Kaj]

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They said the exact same thing about Vietnam and Communism and were 100% wrong as history has proven.

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Umm... no. Khmer Rouge... Killing fields... purges... one of the worst genocides in history [b]enabled by American involvement and widescale bombing in Cambodia, which was built on a series of lies to the American people and the rest of the world, and destroyed any semblenace of civil order within the country.

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP.

[ikestoys]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
They said the exact same thing about Vietnam and Communism and were 100% wrong as history has proven.

[/ QUOTE ]

Umm... no. Khmer Rouge... Killing fields... purges... one of the worst genocides in history enabled by American involvement and widescale bombing in Cambodia, which was built on a series of lies to the American people and the rest of the world, and destroyed any semblenace of civil order within the country.

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP.

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You are not only wrong but you are completely irrelevant and off topic... plz troll somewhere else kthks

[bisonbison]

Is the enemy at the gate? Are we about to be overrun? Are we losing any major battles? Are we suffering any staggering loses? Is there any enemy land we are unable to march over?

These aren't the standards by which an occupation should be measured. There is no force in the world that could stand up to the US military division for division or man for man. But they don't need to. All the militias, guerillas and cells in Iraq need to do is prove us unable to project stability and security in Iraq, and they've been doing that quite well for almost 4 years. We cannot stop attacks on police stations. We cannot stop assassinations of state officials. We cannot stop dozens of bodies with signs of torture from showing up in the streets of Baghdad.

Substantial majorities of Iraqis do not want us there, and support the removal and/or destruction of the force we have in the field. After four years, that's losing. That's lost.

[ikestoys]

bison -
it seems that you are changing the definition of a word to what you want it to be to fit your argument