phoenix helicopter crash - death liability?

[tuq]

NT!,

Those are pretty terrible examples since they will never happen. You might as well say "helicopters covering a jaywalker" or "news choppers on the scene of someone going 15 over". I can tell you that most of the people in this town want this guy to fry, since his actions led to the deaths.

That said, this raises the inevitable question about the stations' responsibility to the public. What was their point of being up there? They can cry public service all they want, but they were there to entertain us and make our midday more exciting. Yay, car chase! Irresponsible journalism IMO, whether the guy is on the hook or not. But every large city seems to do this stuff, and we can't help but watch. Early indications of local feedback seem to indicate no remorse for covering this sort of thing, just a reassessment of protocol for the future.

[Bork]

[ QUOTE ]
yes (in terms of the law at least)

in the case of a car chase, news helicopters following is foreseeable.

in the case of the other stuff, you'd never expect news helicopters.

[/ QUOTE ]

News helicopters following does not equal them crashing into each other due to crappy pilots/ malfuction. The crash clearly was unforseeable by the perp and reasonable people who trust that there is enough room in the air for a handful of choppers. Whether you can forsee that you might draw news helicopters or not is irrelevant because the crash and deaths were some kind of fluke completely outside of the suspects control. Having news helicopters following you is not dangerous for the helicopters because they have to royally screw up or have a mechanical error in order to die. These are pretty damn rare I imagine.

[NT!]

tuq,

sort of clumsy examples, yeah. ok, suppose it was something more benign, like two choppers providing aerial footage of the rolling stones at fenway. they could reasonably guess that there might be air coverage there, is it their fault?

the reason i included that a crime was being committed is that it's the legal basis for the argument. in fact, i think for the legal argument to stand it has to be a felony. so that does change things somewhat.

basically i guess i'm not too sold on the idea that your actions, even if they are criminal, make you liable for someone else's voluntary reactions, when your actions did not directly impose risk on the 'victim'. if two cops got killed during the chase, fine.

[El Diablo]

tup,

Have any of the articles/coverage discussed how the crash happened? Just sounds a little odd to me, seems like copters would be able to see each other well before they got dangerously close, but who knows, I know jack about flying copters.

[Jasper109]

The people who watch these chases on TV are just as liable (if not more so) than the perp.

If crap like this didn't get huge ratings it would never be covered.

[Triumph36]

[ QUOTE ]
The people who watch these chases on TV are just as liable (if not more so) than the perp.

If crap like this didn't get huge ratings it would never be covered.

[/ QUOTE ]

and if people didn't have private property, no one would steal and the police wouldn't have to go after thieves

this argument sucks

[pergesu]

[ QUOTE ]
basically i guess i'm not too sold on the idea that your actions, even if they are criminal, make you liable for someone else's voluntary reactions, when your actions did not directly impose risk on the 'victim'. if two cops got killed during the chase, fine.

[/ QUOTE ]
Absolutely. You know that cops will follow you because they're legally obligated to do so. You "know" that helicopters will follow because that's human nature. That's some pretty shaky ground on which to base a felony conviction.

[D104]

I was having lunch @ a restaurant extremely close to the crash when this happened. Tuq mentioned it, but it is worth repeating - the helicopters were very fortunate to have crashed in the park - that area downtown is very populated and right next to Central Ave, one of the busiest streets in Phoenix.

Map of area - Restaurant that I was at

As for liability, I could be wrong, but there is a huge causation issue with charging the fleer w/ murder. Ppl have already mentioned that this was unforseeable, but also pilot error is an intervening cause that likely prevents him from being liable.

Further, felony-murder is out b/c the killing was not "in furtherance of" his escape.

D

[snagglepuss]

tuq,

can you clarify what exactly you meant by:
[ QUOTE ]
Apparently people in this forum somehow live in even more of a bubble than I do, based on the responses.

[/ QUOTE ] ? as i am not sure what you meant by this and couldn't draw any conclusion based on the rest of your post. also, do you feel the suspect should be completely liable for the deaths?

all,

i can't think of how to properly phrase the idea im trying to convey, but is there any similarity between this and when high speed police chases have lead to the death of innocent motorists/bystanders?

i seem to recall a few times after high-speed chase deaths there being some sort of outcry that the police pursuing at high speeds is highly dangerous to the general public and not worth it. obviously it is quite different, but should the police share in the culpability?

also, the thought of head news directors in phoenix secretly being like "oh fk yeah awesome! helicopters crashing! huge story!" disgusts me, because it feels pretty true.

[Alobar]

If I was the families id sue the [censored] out of the city of phoenix for liablility because sooo many retarded deaths happen due to needless police chases.