phoenix helicopter crash - death liability?

[guids]

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how big of a difference is it if it were two police helicopters that crashed into each other, as opposed to two news helicopters?

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are there laws regulating this difference?


personally I think there is a huge diff. and an even bigger one that they are choppers and not cars or pedestirans

[SomethingClever]

What a [censored] joke. I wonder what crime the guy had committed that he was running away from the cops.

It's clearly not the perp's fault, and I'd be pretty shocked if he was found liable for the crash.

[ocdscale]

[ QUOTE ]
how big of a difference is it if it were two police helicopters that crashed into each other, as opposed to two news helicopters?

also, is there any liability on the estate of Pilot A for the death of journalist A?

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People v. Acosta involved two police helicopters. Court found it was foreseeable but remanded to a lower court to decide the issue of malice (general feeling was that he would get involuntary manslaughter).
The reason the collision between two police helicopters is causally connected to a fleeing criminal, but collision between two news helicopters may not be, is because police have a duty to pursue fleeing criminals.
Essentially, the fleeing criminal is 'forcing' the police to follow, but the news cameramen are making a conscious decision whether or not to pursue.
If two police cars crashed, it would be pretty lock + shut. The only reason why helicopter crashes raise a question is because they are out of the ordinary and perhaps not foreseeable by the criminal (Acosta court says it is foreseeable, however).

Given the facts, neither pilot has any criminal liability for the death of the journalists in either helicopter. There may be civil liability under negligence depending on the reason for the crash.

Note: I am certainly not a lawyer, and criminal laws differ in every state, so don't start high speed chases on my account.

edit: I don't think felony murder doctrine applies because it also requires causation (Which I think is the main issue holding back liability for the collision between news helicopters, intervening human actors are a superseding cause).

[snagglepuss]

thanks for the info ocd, that was pretty much what i was assuming would be the case and underlying reasoning.

i will be interested to see if criminal charges are actually brought against this guy for the deaths (i doubt they will be), and if a civil suit is filed against either pilots by the journalists' families. (no idea)

[Hass]

I have so much to say being from Phoenix and watching this yesterday for hours on end. I think my reply to every post would get me banned so I'll leave. ttyl.

[pergesu]

[ QUOTE ]
I have so much to say being from Phoenix and watching this yesterday for hours on end. I think my reply to every post would get me banned so I'll leave. ttyl.

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Or you should get a star for unparalleled lameness.

Spill it.

[tuq]

Almost posted an OP about this yesterday. It was leading on Drudge Report and FOX News, and eventually CNN.com. It happened right by where I both live and work, and it was the talk of the town. The reason I didn't post it is the stupid goddamned LOL forum, I didn't want to catch crap for posting a couple of links and discussing 1) the criminal's liability in the crashes and 2) the utter police ineptitude that led to the crash.

Apparently people in this forum somehow live in even more of a bubble than I do, based on the responses. This was a grisly, brutal thing that by mere fluke spared a ton of other deaths. It happened just north of Indian School Road downtown, at the site of the original Indian School. Everywhere around it is densely populated, including a VA hospital maybe 1/4 mile east at the most.

In case you missed it:

Video from downed helicopter (grisly).

Video from CBS affiliate approaching, which showed the crash in the distance but mostly the two copters hitting the ground.

Pic of the two helicopters falling in mid-air.

The annoying thing, if you can find feed from the NBC affiliate, is that the cops repeatedly botched stopping the guy. There was one time that they had him trapped in a cul-de-sac and he simply drove around one of the cop cars. Then just as the two copters hit each other he successfully switched trucks. The NBC chopper was filming from the opposite side of the downed chopper and rolled footage of a cop having the suspect in his sights but letting him drive off. At the time and for awhile, it wasn't clear to us that letting the guy get away in a new car probably had no effect on the down choppers' fate, but we thought it did and were annoyed by the half-assed attempts by the cops to stop the perp.

And from what I've read around here, he will be charged with manslaughter for the four deaths.

[Bork]

He certainly has no moral responsibility for their deaths as the crash is not at all a forseeable result of running from the cops.. Has this EVER happened before?

If he has any legal culpability for the crash it is because the law is much too vague and stupid. I remember I once read that if you are on your way to commit a felony (and they can prove it) and you accidently run over somebody who is crossing the highway then it legally counts as having some intent, whether you were driving dangerously or not. Makes no sense to me though.

Also I didn't find those videos at all disturbing, but that pic with the guy free-falling really got to me.

[NT!]

think of it this way. suppose the guy had been doing something dumb, violating a minor ordinance in his yard and attracting attention to himself, and the news choppers had crashed while covering that. would he still be liable? say, the cops are responding to a domestic disturbance because some guy is out on his porch in a mumu playing prince songs and humping a teddy bear. is it his fault if a news chopper crashes while covering him? what if a passer-by trips and cracks his head open while watching? is there any difference between those cases and this one?

[mason55]

yes (in terms of the law at least)

in the case of a car chase, news helicopters following is foreseeable.

in the case of the other stuff, you'd never expect news helicopters.