AK...fear of commitment

[Somnius]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeh, checking prolly sucks. Even so, what are we hoping to gain by betting, besides protection? We have good equity and there aren't too many draws.

Checking also looks suspicious, possibly putting an observant opponent into WA/WB mode. That's good for our one-pair hand, as it invokes both pot control and reluctance to fold, no?

I don't know. Could be over thinking it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Betting would fold out set-fishers. You'd get calls from KQ, QT, T9, maybe even QJ or KT depending. UTG is even less likely to have much, consdering he open posted blinds then simply could've felt compelled to complete cause he's a moron who couldn't wait for blinds to reach him next hand.

Villian's calling range could be even looser considering he's in position, and if your cbet% is high he might float...lots of great reasons to bet.

[subs]

SHIP IT!

[Milky]

Not betting this flop would be criminal.

His raise is pretty damn big... does he really do this with a set? Maybe. Looks like KJ/KQ, maybe QT but he doesn't seem aggro enough for that. I'd probably call and re-eval on turn.

[Fammy]

I like the fold myself and I think overall it was played well (stayed under committment threshhold, seemed to have a reasonable plan, let it go with new info)....BUT here is my question...

Are we giving this guy too much credit? I think most if not all of us have read PNL by now as the ideas seem to be permeating a lot of recent posts (I think it is pretty good myself) and based on what I have been reading in these posts we may even be getting a handle on it. How many people who are not 2+2er's have read it / learned it? Are we applying our thoughts on play to other players incorrectly? I was thinking about this the other day and came to the conclusion, THERE ARE CLEARLY STILL DONKS OUT THERE. I am not suggesting this is the case here (again, I think it was played pretty well as is), but I guess I might be throwing out the caution that we should not assume that everyone out there understands committment / pot management / maximization. To me, this looks like a guy who has a medium to strong made hand and is scared to death that he is going to be drawn out on....unless something has happened recently at this table to support that players are willing to call relatively large pot sized raises and he feels he can take 1 or 2 stacks.

As a group, let's make sure we don't personify our opponents to our way of thinking....they just may not be doing it.

Fammy

[SDone]

I think you'll see king jack a lot here.

[EMc]

Why does everyone go put on a dress the minute they get raised with TPTK?

[stillnaive]

The problem is that in the interest of exploiting donks, are we willing to become donks ourselves by over committing with TPTK? I mean, if you call this bet, do you really think he's going to go into a shell? He's basically pot committed. He's gonna bet, unless he catches a major scare card. If he bets again on the turn, do you fold?

[vieira10]

What cards are we hoping for on the turn? An ace or king and thats about it. If a blank comes, do we bet out or check/call. It just seems like every situation is gonna put you in a tough spot. I dont like the call and re-eval line usually, especially OOP.

[SDone]

[ QUOTE ]
Why does everyone go put on a dress the minute they get raised with TPTK?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because of all the times we've overplayed it and lost huge pots. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[EMc]

Carrotsnake once told me that TPTK is the nuts. I believe him.


The serious key to playing TPTK is to identify a second best hand and see if thats reasonable and not worry about monsters under the bed. And additionally one raise on the flop should not be leaving you to fold this. Thats really exploitable. I like to raise a lot of flops in position with draws or if I sense some weakness from a non donk player.

TPTK is a much stronger hand at uNL then people are giving credit for. Remember, the same donk that sucked out with A2 against you KK? He loved that TPNK. Hes still around.