Absolute Does Not Respond to Two Plus Two’s Fraud Investigation Offer

[Bakes]

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What Two Plus Two has done over the past twenty years is to create an entity that must be taken seriously by everyone in the poker business.

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We have forwarded the letter to Absolute Poker for approval, and so far, we have not heard an answer. In fact, Absolute Poker recently issued a press release stating that they have retained the “Gaming Associates” company to conduct an investigation into the recent allegations.

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[snagglepuss]

thanks mason!

[Weevil99]

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Couldn't he be using the word "2+2" instead of "the two plus two posters?"

[/ QUOTE ]Well, possibly, but it didn't come across that way to me. He's suggesting that it's his lawyers (not Nat or Adanthar's lawyers) who ought to be welcomed into Absolute's offices.

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This should be expected. Remember from the OP:

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Due to the size and influence of these forums within the industry, Absolute Poker recently approached me to ask if Two Plus Two would confirm to our forums...

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Absolute Poker approached Mason, not the other way around. They want him to put 2+2's seal of approval on their poker site. Naturally he would want to involve his own lawyers, not someone else's.

[gobbomom]

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What Two Plus Two has done over the past twenty years is to create an entity that must be taken seriously by everyone in the poker business. Also, we do have a very strong reputation for integrity. It is this framework which allows our posters to have the kind of influence they had in this situation. No other major entity in the industry, as far as I know, was able to step forward in the manner that we did and apply the kind of pressure that we did. Yes, you may argue that this was done by our posters and not by us. But it was done under our name which meant it needed to be taken very seriously and could not be sloughed off.

Best wishes,
Mason

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absolutely. Thank you Mason.

[grando]

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Quoting Mason:

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Two Plus Two and its forum members have been responsible....

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The forum members have done all the work....Two Plus Two as a company hasn't done [censored].

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obviously this isn't true

[lilman2636]

Thanks mason
i am a strong 2p2 player and forever will be and if mason
harrington slanksy and all the other top dogs say Ap is not
cooperating then 2p2 players should cooperate with Ap period thats how i stand and as far as
that guy qutoting mason whats 2p2 get out of it
peace of mind to its players knowing that every play they make is fair!!!
thanks guys
long live the 2p2 forum

[egj]

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All Two Plus Two did, was to provide the infrastructure and also the atmosphere for a group of posters of Two Plus Two to notice, investigate and alert.


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This is flat out wrong. What Two Plus Two has done over the past twenty years is to create an entity that must be taken seriously by everyone in the poker business. Also, we do have a very strong reputation for integrity. It is this framework which allows our posters to have the kind of influence they had in this situation. No other major entity in the industry, as far as I know, was able to step forward in the manner that we did and apply the kind of pressure that we did. Yes, you may argue that this was done by our posters and not by us. But it was done under our name which meant it needed to be taken very seriously and could not be sloughed off.


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I should probably just let this go, because, after all, we're all on the same side here. But this last paragraph is really kind of silly and I don't feel like it can just let it slide. Yes, Two Plus Two, the company has integrity and credibility. But, no, that doesn't mean that all posters here get the benefit of that reputation. That's like saying that all the spam on the Yahoo finance message boards carries the credibility of Yahoo. Two Plus Two, the company, isn't responsible for the content - good or bad - posted on the forums, and likewise cannot receive credit or blame for that content.

As the person Mason was responding to said, Two Plus Two, the company, provided the infrastructure that helped support the community members who teamed up to uncover this business. That's non-trivial and you can legimately be proud of that role. But let's not carried away and suggest that Two Plus Two, the company, had a significantly bigger role than that.

[VP$IP]

From the terms and conditions of this forum:

"You understand that, except for products or services clearly identified as being supplied by 2+2 or ConJelCo, neither 2+2, ConJelCo, nor any of their affiliates operates or controls any information, products, or services on the 2+2 website in any way. You assume total responsibility and risk for your use of the 2+2 websiste. You are responsible for your own posts."

[Weevil99]

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All Two Plus Two did, was to provide the infrastructure and also the atmosphere for a group of posters of Two Plus Two to notice, investigate and alert.


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This is flat out wrong. What Two Plus Two has done over the past twenty years is to create an entity that must be taken seriously by everyone in the poker business. Also, we do have a very strong reputation for integrity. It is this framework which allows our posters to have the kind of influence they had in this situation. No other major entity in the industry, as far as I know, was able to step forward in the manner that we did and apply the kind of pressure that we did. Yes, you may argue that this was done by our posters and not by us. But it was done under our name which meant it needed to be taken very seriously and could not be sloughed off.


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I should probably just let this go, because, after all, we're all on the same side here. But this last paragraph is really kind of silly and I don't feel like it can just let it slide. Yes, Two Plus Two, the company has integrity and credibility. But, no, that doesn't mean that all posters here get the benefit of that reputation. That's like saying that all the spam on the Yahoo finance message boards carries the credibility of Yahoo. Two Plus Two, the company, isn't responsible for the content - good or bad - posted on the forums, and likewise cannot receive credit or blame for that content.

As the person Mason was responding to said, Two Plus Two, the company, provided the infrastructure that helped support the community members who teamed up to uncover this business. That's non-trivial and you can legimately be proud of that role. But let's not carried away and suggest that Two Plus Two, the company, had a significantly bigger role than that.

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I think you're mistaken. The AP thing was discussed all over the place, not just on 2+2. It was the reputation and the high standing in the poker community of this forum that amplified the discussion and made it too loud to ignore. Had it all taken place on rgp, for example, the effect would not have been the same.

Pocket5s, to a much lesser extent, deserves some of the same credit. Without these forums, Nat and Adanthar and company would have been whining on some Yahoo feedback page and no one would have heard.

Definitely, Nat and the others did all the brainstorming, but without two other things it probably would have all been for nothing: 1. the street cred 2+2 has built up in the poker community over the years, and 2. the raw xls file that proved to be the smoking gun. I think if any one of these three ingredients had been missing, AP would have had a good chance of getting away with everything.

[GaryTheGoat]

Mason,

You are THE man. Absolute's refusal to accept or discuss your generous proposal is very telling indeed.

Said refusal, inter alia, casts serious doubt on whether Absolute's current investigation proposal with Gaming Associates is adequate to protect its site and the online poker industry in general.

I appreciate and thank you for your effective efforts in this troubling matter.

Sincerely,

Gary