Advanced Hand Reading Excercise

[good2cu]

This post is probaly going to take a decent amount of thinking across multiple streets so if you aren't prepared to do a few minutes of thinking you'll be wasting your time reading/responding.

Hero in both hands is a 19/17/3 TAG who is new to the games the past 2-3 weeks and probaly a solid winner. He def has good preflop ranges and adjusts his 3 bets and calling 3 bets well.

Villian in both hands is a 25/20/3.5 LAG and has been one of the biggest winners in the games over the past few months.

Hero and Villian have been going at it recently as they are starting to realize that each other's ranges are wider in spots then they orginally guessed. But there has yet to be a showndown where either of them was making a big move, or was widly out of line.

On to the hands:

Hand #1

$2,000 USD NL Texas Hold'em -
Table Table 126361 (Real Money)
Seat 6 is the button
Total number of players : 5
Seat 3: BB ( $2,188.50 USD )
Seat 4: Hero ( $2,604.50 USD )
Seat 5: dennisje1981 ( $2,834 USD )
Seat 6: Downdude_ ( $1,677 USD )
Seat 1: Villian ( $2,507 USD )
Villian posts small blind [$10 USD].
BB posts big blind [$20 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
>You have options at Table 125390 (No DP) Table!.
Hero raises [$75 USD]
dennisje1981 folds.
Downdude_ folds.
>You have options at Table 125443 Table!.
>You have options at Table 126584 (No DP) Table!.
R_U_SEERIOUS has joined the table.
>You have options at Table 126636 (No DP) Table!.
Villian raises [$240 USD]
BB folds.
Hero calls [$175 USD]
** Dealing Flop ** [ 7d, Tc, Jc ]
Villian checks.
Hero checks.
** Dealing Turn ** [ 2c ]
>You have options at Table 126584 (No DP) Table!.
Villian checks.
Hero checks.
** Dealing River ** [ 9h ]
>You have options at Table 125443 Table!.
Villian bets [$400 USD]
Hero raises [$800 USD]
>You have options at Table 126636 (No DP) Table!.
Villian is all-In.

What hand range do you put the hero on? How do you weight his range? Are you bet/calling or bet/folding the river?

What hand range do you put the villian on? Again weight this range.

Table Table 126584 (No DP) (Real Money)
Seat 4 is the button
Total number of players : 6
Seat 2: bolitar ( $1,765.14 USD )
Seat 3: Hero ( $2,097 USD )
Seat 5: BUYAAHH ( $2,744 USD )
Seat 4: Villian ( $1,970 USD )
Seat 6: benzidebuc ( $1,896 USD )
Seat 1: BB ( $2,000 USD )
benzidebuc posts small blind [$10 USD].
>You have options at Table 125443 Table!.
BB posts big blind [$20 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
bolitar folds.
Hero raises [$75 USD]
Villian calls [$75 USD]
benzidebuc folds.
BB folds.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 3c, 3s, 5c ]
Hero checks.
Villian bets [$130 USD]
>You have options at Table 125443 Table!.
Hero raises [$375 USD]
Villian calls [$245 USD]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 6s ]
Hero bets [$650 USD]
Villian is all-In.

Again put both villian and hero on weighted ranges. What do you need to call as hero?

Edit: oops I included hole cards orginally. If anyone saw this please ignore.

[Ship Ship McGipp]

Hand 1 KQ or any 8, there are plenty given game description

Hand 2 he raised pre and CRed the flop? wtf? i don't nkow it's only 100 bbs i would prob never fold two queens, and usually not two tens, and yes there is a diff bc the raise was utg1 and a cold call right behind, so all those overpairs are in ranges. in other words, snap aa, call qq, usually tt and i would prob fold two 8s or two 9s.. the distance between the top card on the board and numerous overpairs and pair+ straight draws is a factor obv, and no credit for a cr as a pfr, meaning i take it back and would prob call with two 7s here too

[aditya]

Post deleted by aditya

[good2cu]

[ QUOTE ]
hand 1 you're play makes no sense to me. You slowplay your hand till the river and get it in when the worst card possible for you comes up. Obv fold now unless you have some super read.

[ QUOTE ]
Are you bet/calling or bet/folding the river?

[/ QUOTE ]

You have position on him so you can't do either unless he check to you. If he does infact check, bet folding is obv the best way to go (imo atleast.)

hand 2, you might wanna take away your hand so that it won't skew people's thinking or w/e. But assuming that you want a sincere answer, I'd be stacking off pretty tight in this situation. JJ+ is what I'd prolly stack off with in this situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes once again I didn't mean to include any hole cards so could you please edit your post to avoid baising anyone.

Also I think I wrongly misguided you by posting whole cards. You were not suppose to think about the spefific hand a player possesed. Also both of these hands were taken out of a friend's database.

So once again if you could edit your post and would be great and I'll awnser your spefic questions by pm.

[aditya]

Might wanna edit your last post now. Also, sorry for ruining (if I did) your post for you.

[ikestoys]

convert hands plz?

if i'm actually going to look for position, stack sizes and such i'd rather not have to hunt for it

[JKratzer]

the postflop play in hand 1 makes me suspect there is a fair amount of history between you two to check that flop and turn. if hero doesn't have KQ minimum i really don't like the play. that being said i'd expect villian in hand 1 to have air/flush and would probably call with anything i got there with.

hand 2 can't really say what hero's range is here since the line is kind of weird and not something i do myself. that being said i more or less agree with ae but wouldn't call with the lower/medium pairs. i'll go ahead and say i want KK+ here.

[fees]

Hand 1:
his river bet range is really wide.. but his 3b range is alot tighter..

I would estimate his b/3b range at like uh... x8 or MAYBE something like AKcc that he wanted to c/r flop with, but you checked back and he decided to tarp u by checking turn as well. Like i duno its really tough to imagine him showing up here with anything else unless he like mixes up his play alot and will do this [censored] with like AA or JJ or something, but im not sure he would 3b. I definitly think he views our minraise as thinish value so he might have a wider 3b range than i original estimated (now that i consider it)Since its just like soo bizzare i call with striaghts and flushes.. then i guess sets too just cuz im like so lost and I kinda want info, im also getting insane odds. I expect like the bottom of his range to b like AA or something stupid like 109 .. at the very worst. Just go from ther ei guess?

Hand two he is likely leveling you TBH.. i think I call down with like.. hrmm (I'm assuming he flats some medium/big pairs preflop) so prob 99+ is a safe bet, but like if you guys go after each other expect him to show up light here very often. Also he will sometimes have 55 or like QQ=P

[ddubois]

[ QUOTE ]
Villian raises [$240 USD]
BB folds.
Hero calls [$175 USD]
** Dealing Flop ** [ 7d, Tc, Jc ]
Villian checks.
Hero checks.
** Dealing Turn ** [ 2c ]
>You have options at Table 126584 (No DP) Table!.
Villian checks.
Hero checks.
** Dealing River ** [ 9h ]
>You have options at Table 125443 Table!.
Villian bets [$400 USD]
Hero raises [$800 USD]
>You have options at Table 126636 (No DP) Table!.
Villian is all-In.

What hand range do you put the hero on? How do you weight his range? Are you bet/calling or bet/folding the river?

What hand range do you put the villian on? Again weight this range.

[/ QUOTE ]
You're asking us to read the action when it went check/check, check/check, bet/raise/shove. That's not exactly a common line. I'll take a crack at it, but don't expect much.

Based on not just action but also bet-sizing, Hero's hand looks very much like 88. I could say 8x here, as 88, T8s, 87s, etc., (all the pair/gutshot combos), probably play the same (although perhaps the latter two can be discounted slightly, both for preflop, and due to the fact that they are more likely to play aggressively on earlier streets given their improved equity versus QQ+). Hero looks to be trying to squeeze out a tiny amount of value on the river from something like two-pair or 99. It seems like hero would have semi-bluffed with KQ on an earlier street, so while I'd include it in his range, I'd discount it slightly. The likelihood of hero bluffing that bet size is minuscule.

It doesn't make much sense for either player to have a flush here. It would be pretty unconventional to check a flopped flush draw with initiative. And it would be unheard of for hero to check behind a made flush on the turn. That said, given river action, villain really should have a flush. Maybe he flopped 9c8c and whiffed on a CR twice. Or maybe he wanted to CRAI bluff the flop with AcKc, whiffed, and then got tricky on the turn. Anyway, I'd count up 3betting-from-the-SB flush combos and discount them across the board by 90%. I suppose if villain knows hero doesn't have a flush, he is free to value shove KQ, hoping hero pays off with 8x. Or bluff more widely, figuring that Hero can't call with a bare 8 on that board. But it's probably not a good idea to try to bluff someone off a straight, and villain can't eliminate KQ from hero's range, so the bluff part of his range should be discounted pretty heavily.

[HustlerLA]

Hand 1: Hero could have 88 or a SC with an 8, He could also have 99 and be making a thin river raise

Villian range imo is wide. It could be AcQc or AcKc and missed a c/r on flop. I dont see villain shoving with the str8 unless its QK but I think he would have bet the turn or flop with that. SO I think you see AcKc AcQc here most often. As hero based on OP (nobody too out of line) and that I just minraised the river, i dont see villain having less than a flush here, so I fold a str8 and less.

Hand 2: I think the flop C/r is suspicious. This is really often a combo draw. I see hero having JcQc or similar alot here. I just dont see a made hand that would be played like that too often. SO I doubt Hero can call. If hero had 6c7c I think he might have checked turn. But If i were to call as hero I would need JJ+ to call.