Unprecedented SF study finds pot helps ease pain

[stigmata]

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How is this news? duh - Amazing how stupid journalists can be.

[/ QUOTE ] especially when it comes to science. Scientists, on the other hand, are guilty of many things, but not normally stupidity.

[dcb777]

smoke pot ease the pain

[crazy canuck]

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It's almost certainly mathematically significant (reject the null hypothesis) if it makes the journal.


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No it's not:


Assume p Binomial. Unbiased estimate for p:

p=8/25=0.32

Std for p:

SQRT[(p)*(1-p)/25]=0.93

66% CI for estimate = [p-std,p+std]=[0.22,0.41]

Similarly, CI for placebo estimate = [0.087,0.23]

Two confidence intevals overlap at 66% level => can't even be sure that THC is better than pot without THC.

At least we can be fairly certain that pot has some pain killing properties (0 is not included in the 99% CI for the first test), but again there is no proof that it is significant.

[Osprey]

Patients were allowed to be on other meds, and it looks like the 2 groups were almost completely matched for other meds except there was slightly more opiate use in the placebo group, which they don't say was a significant difference.
From the study:
"Primary outcome measure. Median daily pain ratings for the two groups throughout the entire study are shown in figure 3. Baseline (average of day –1 and day 1) daily diary pain ratings were similar (cannabis median 52, interquartile range [IQR] = 38, 71; placebo median 57, IQR = 40, 74). Among those who completed the study, 13 of 25 patients randomized to cannabis cigarettes had >30% reduction in pain from baseline to end of treatment vs 6 of 25 patients receiving placebo cigarettes (52% vs 24%; difference 28%, 95% CI 2% to 54%, p = 0.04). The median reduction in chronic neuropathic pain on the daily diary VAS was 34% (IQR = –71, –16) in the cannabis group and 17% in the placebo group (IQR = –29, 8; difference = 18%; p = 0.03, Mann-Whitney test). In the multivariable repeated measures model, which analyzed available data from all randomized patients, the estimated group difference was slightly larger than the observed difference among those who completed the study (26%; 95% CI = 0, 51; p = 0.05).

Secondary outcome measures. Smoking the first cannabis cigarette reduced chronic pain ratings (AUC) by a median of 72% vs a reduction of 15% with placebo cigarettes (p < 0.001, Mann-Whitney test; figure 4A). On day 5 just prior to smoking the last cigarette, median ratings of current chronic pain intensity were lower in the cannabis group (15; IQR = 7, 34) than in the placebo group (29; IQR = 20, 60; p = 0.006, Mann-Whitney test). Smoking the last cigarette further reduced chronic pain ratings 51% in the cannabis group vs 5% in the placebo group (p < 0.001, Mann-Whitney test)."

All those results are less than 0.05 and show significance for smoking cannabis being better than placebo.

[crazy canuck]

Thanks Osprey. This is completely different data than in the news report...in which the conclusions couldn't have been made.

[Woolygimp]

This is all [censored]. Being high amplifies pain exponentially, or at least certain types such as peircing.

Go get high, and go get a tatoo. That in itself will re-define pain for you, or you could just read some stories about people who have done this and let them tell you just how excruciating it is.

You are more aware, with a heightened sense of feeling after you get blazed...
Muscle aches, cuts, and injuries all feel worse.

Weed numbing pain? I think it makes retarded people less self-aware that they are in fact retarded, but I've never heard of any case where it acted like a pain killer for anything but psychological problems.

[durkahdurkah]

either you've:
1. never smoked weed before
2. never smoked good weed before
3. react way differently to it than like easily 80% of smokers

[jman220]

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Weed numbing pain? I think it makes retarded people less self-aware that they are in fact retarded, but I've never heard of any case where it acted like a pain killer for anything but psychological problems.


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From Wikipedia:

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Cannabis is also a mild analgesic, similar in effect to aspirin or ibuprofen;

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An analgesic (colloquially known as a painkiller) is any member of the diverse group of drugs used to relieve pain (achieve analgesia).

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[water fowl]

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it states in the article that the placebo is marijuana sans THC

if they just chemically remove THC then the joint they are smoking will likely taste like weed (can't say for sure, i've never smoked THC-less weed), in much the same way that Quest cigarettes taste like tobacco.

the main point is that there are other cannabinoids in marijuana that have an effect on you, that they did NOT remove, or at least did not state that they removed. So it's quite likely that the pain reduction noted by those in the placebo group could well have been actual pain reduction and not placebo

i'm not so sure this study isn't flawed because of this, but it's a step in the right direction. if anything, the study would end up understating the pain reducing effects of weed, if only because the placebo group did not receive a "true" placebo

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It's clear you have no clue what you're talking about.

[Woolygimp]

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either you've:
1. never smoked weed before
2. never smoked good weed before
3. react way differently to it than like easily 80% of smokers

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1. Do a search for 'getting a tatoo while high'.
2. Read the results.
3. Apologize.
4. Stick your face in [censored], and shut up.


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While it's not everyone's experience (a percentage of people feel the exact opposite), this reader describes his experiences getting tattooed after smoking a joint:

... decided to 'calm me down,' so he had me smoke a joint before he did anything on me. I watched him set up his machine, then settled down to become tattooed. I was so excited!

Oh My Dear God, it hurt!

Halfway through, probably 15 to 20 minutes into the experience, I broke down crying, made him stop, and ran out the front door for air. I felt like I was going to throw up and implode all of my bodily functions at once. I started hyper-ventilating, but made myself calm down.

His girlfriend brought me some water, and made me let him get back to work. [censored], I was not ready. But, once again, I bit my lip and tried not to let it get to me. I didn't want to move any way; I was scared I would cause him to [censored] up my tattoo. By the time I was ready to make him quit again, he was done.

I should also note that smoking pot heavily after a fresh oral piercing such as a tongue piercing, has been reported to greatly increase swelling in some individuals. It should also be noted that if you've got a fresh oral piercing, you shouldn't be sharing joints or pipes with others.

That said, like all drugs, the responses people have are varied. Most of the people we talked to reported increased pain from marijuana:

I inked my lil bro, and he kinda lied about exactly how much he'd had to smoke (weed) — he said he'd had a spliff in the morning and as it was like 4pm I thought nothing of it (he's a total stoner). In truth, his one spliff was one hell of a session, as 20 minutes into the tattoo he was heavily sweating and feeling sick... consequently he went on to pull a minor whine'n'moan like a small child for 4 hours!

Another person recounts similar problems:

When I use to smoke bud and then get pierced, the pain was worse then normal and I often started to black out (and yes, I did eat before I got pierced) to heal a piercing when I smoked bud was very difficult, the piercings seemed to stay forever infected or irritated. Now that I have been drug free for almost a year I have never had a problem healing any of my latest piercing and some even heal far ahead of time, and are practically painless.

However, not everyone agrees—many people also find that pot increases rather than lowers their tolerance for pain:

My 'friend' has been mildly stoned during some of her piercings (play piercing and permanent, by self and others) and didn't find it unpleasant at all. She felt calmer, fully aware of what was about to happen but more accepting of it — not as hyped up by either fear OR false courage. The pain was maybe a little dulled ... or maybe just less scary. Come to think of it, I've also had a few drinks before some play-piercing sessions and had no problem with that, either. Alcohol does increase bleeding, though (which isn't always a bad thing). The key is to recognize that you'll be under stress and to be honest about your limits.

Another writes:

The one time, I smoked it before getting tattooed; it actually helped me relax and get into my breathing very easy. It "distracted" me from the pain, rather than dulling the pain like Vicoden did.

Another agrees:

I've been both tattooed and pierced after smoking marijuana, and I can say that during both the initial process and subsequent stretching of piercings, pot probably increases my tolerance for pain two, if not threefold. On one occasion, I stretched my septum after taking a couple of very healthy pipe hits and did not so much as flinch; it induced far less discomfort than usual.

It may be as simple as the marijuana helping the modifiee to relax — after all, a relaxed person will perceive pain as far less traumatic:

I dont see any thing wrong with smoking herb and getting ink done. I can sit back and relax more, and just let the artist do their work. I haven't felt any more pain while high geting ink done.

Several readers also wrote us to point out that the stress that fresh modifications put on your body can greatly amplify the effects of marijuana taken afterwards:

Smoking pot after getting tattooed isn't that good either. At least for me. After one bong hit, I was higher than I've ever been off pot before. Then I had to drive home and didn't even notice that some one had keyed my car all the way down to the metal.

A friend of mine once got his frenum pierced and like an hour after he got it done we came back to my house and lit a joint of regular marijuana. Halfway to the end of it, the guy faints and falls straight to the floor. [censored] scary. Our only explanation was that he still had an endorphin rush or something and that it didn't mix so well with the weed.

Finally, there are of course other "strange side-effects" in terms of body modification, as one reader describes:

I used to smoke a lot of pot, and when I was high for days, my piercings started to [censored] with my head. I felt unbalanced (couple piercings in one ear and not the other, etc.) and ended up removing a couple!

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