Swallowing Pride and asking for help

DCHI194 · #1 07-23-2007, 06:50 PM

I started like most players in that I saw Varkyoni win and then Moneymaker and was hooked on the game. I started playing with play money in college 3-4 years ago and grew up to playing 20 buck sit n gos with friends
I had a decent rate of return on these tourneys and started toying with 1-2 in my local casino. I still play casino occasionally but the last few months I have been dumping money into Full Tilt. I am very serious about Poker and would like some advice.

I've read both Hellmuth books, Gordon's little Blue Book, Greatest Hand I ever played, Bluff Magazine, Listen to the Poker Edge among others. My understanding of the game is pretty solid though certainly not expert.

I would like to play to supplement my income and because I love the game so much. i am decent at putting people on hands and 7.5/10 times I can run my 100 dollar buy in to at least 200 and sometimes 400 bucks. However I generally develop a leak there and lose all the way back to 100 if not to 0. I guess my questions are the following:

Should I drop down to .15/.30 to build a bankrool using the traditional measures of bankroll status (20 Buy ins before moving up a level)?

I had a little bit of money to play with that could fund an initial bankroll...

Second question is ive heard about things like cardrunner and poker tracker...are these things I should look into to help my game?

Are there any books that are must reads that I have missed?

Thanks for any and all comments. I really take this seriously and would love to get a dialogue going. Thanks again...

arealcat · #2 07-23-2007, 07:01 PM

poker tracker ---> gold

phydaux · #3 07-23-2007, 07:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
poker tracker ---> gold

[/ QUOTE ]

Quoted For Truth

What game do you mostly play? NL cash games? If so, FR or 6-max? Or are you still mostly playing SnGs?

Either way, get Poker Tracker, PAHUD and Harrington on Hold'em vol I. it will be the best $100.00 you've ever spent.

insyder19 · #4 07-23-2007, 07:24 PM

[censored] for free.

mmbossman · #5 07-23-2007, 07:25 PM

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Are there any books that are must reads that I have missed?

[/ QUOTE ]
You somehow managed to miss all of the good ones... Harrington on Hold'em vol. 1-3, Theory of Poker, Small Stakes Hold'em, Hold 'em Poker for Advanced Players. Try those for starters.

QuickLearner · #6 07-23-2007, 07:30 PM

A couple thoughts... Fulltilt may not be the best place for you. Both Pokerstars and Ultimatebet have micro-stake games where you can work on your poker skills. You'll probably find more success if you don't concentrate on supplementing your income right now. It's true that we keep score with money, but fixating on it too early will destroy your love for the game.

As far as the books go, I'd stick to 2+2 titles.

Harv72b · #7 07-23-2007, 07:34 PM

Also, if you can figure out a way to unread the Hellmuth books, that might help. I've read two of his books (Play like the Pros & Bad Beats), and while they were entertaining & somewhat interesting just as a way to look inside his head, they were almost completely devoid of quality poker strategy.

For NL play, and especially for NL tournament play, the Harrington on Hold'em series is nothing short of outstanding. Theory of Poker is also a must-read for any poker player. Small Stakes Hold'em is an excellent book, but is aimed at limit hold'em...while it shouldn't hurt you as a NL player, it won't help as much as others.

The single biggest thing you need to focus on, and this is true for just about every beginning poker player, is bankroll management. Don't play games that you can't afford to lose at, because no matter how good you are, there are going to be sessions where you lose. That means picking out a very low starting level and staying there while you grind out the tens of thousands of hands it should take you to establish yourself as a statistically probable long-term winner, as well as to grow your bankroll to where you can withstand normal variance at the next highest level.

(Winning) poker is a game of patience and discipline. That holds just as true off the table as on.

dakevs · #8 07-23-2007, 10:51 PM

i, like you... considered myself a seasoned player... having played $1/$2 live and winning a couple hundred at live tourneys... having gone busto online many times, however... i pretty much learned my lesson.

i think that it would be good for you to stick to the 20 buy-in rule. it forces you to play the correct style of poker (tight/aggressive) because you realize that once you lose your roll, that's it. game over man, game over.

however, considering that you are somewhat skilled, not a complete noob, and have played at a higher limit, i read a post somewhere that said if you have 30 buy ins for your current limit, ie. $300 for $10NL, then you can "take a shot at the next level." well, that's what i'm planning on doing.

also, poker tracker is awesome for online players. i've had it for almost 6 months and am still learning new things that will help improve my game.

anyways good luck to you. but thats what we have 2+2 for... so we won't need it. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

RedJoker · #9 07-23-2007, 11:37 PM

[ QUOTE ]
i read a post somewhere that said if you have 30 buy ins for your current limit, ie. $300 for $10NL, then you can "take a shot at the next level." well, that's what i'm planning on doing.

[/ QUOTE ]

You can prob start taking shots when you have 15 buy-ins for the level above you. What I did was get to 20 buy-ins for the level above me and take a 5 buy-in shot at it. If I dropped to 15 buy-ins for the higher level I would drop back down to rebuild.

Genz · #10 07-24-2007, 01:35 AM

The BR management depends on your skills and confidence. It is widely accepted, that 20 BIs on a given limit has very little risk of ruin when you have some decent poker skills and are not a losing player from the get go. If you are comfortable with fewer BIs and moving up and down a lot, you can use a more agressive bankroll strategy and take shots from 15 BIs on. But you have to make sure that you are willing to move down when you take a hit. If you're not and playing above your skill limit on a regular basis, you should employ a far more conservative bankroll management strategy.

and about the books that you list: Except Gordon's little Green Book, I haven't looked at one of these ever. I think posting hands and reviewing hands in the forums here (especially micro limits for you) is >>>> than the books you've read. Then I'd recommend the first Harrington and others (look into the publications forums).