Don't be this guy

[jalexone]

This is the type of idiotic decisions that keep "new" players away from B&M. People are afraid of losing their money because of some undisclosed rule or a simple mistake.

Warn the players, do not punish them!

[pfapfap]

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I'm not real fond of the "in front of your cards" rule, myself. But I'm less fond of betting lines.

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Agreed. It should be the clear intent, and in this case obviously the guy was intending to do more. However, the rules that say in front of cards do help with the larger problem of people having cards that not everyone (sometimes not even the dealer) can see.

But y'know what takes care of pretty much every problem, including this one? PROTECTING YOUR HAND. In this case, that means verbal declarations of intent.

[GTL]

i understand the string betting rules. and to some degree i understand why you would want to have a betting line or not be allowed to count out a bet in front of your cards.

however, if someone is counting out chips in front of their cards in a manner that is clearly not angle shooting then i think they should be warned before being forced to call a bet.

when you play with people for a little while, it is generally clear what they do with their chips before they make a bet, raise, or call. if they're not angling, they shouldn't be forced to do something they weren't intending to do.

this would only work in some hypothetical perfect world though.

[psandman]

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I played a tournament the other night and the guy in the 1 seat kept taking his stack of chips and setting them a good 6 inches in front of his cards, stopping, picking up his cards, then pulling his chips back and mucking. I finally asked the dealer after I was in a hand with him :"So is that an all in or what this time since the chips are right out in the betting area". Dealer says "no, he didn't say call" WTF, I didn't ask anything about a call. I bet 500 and there is 4k sitting out about 8 inches from the rail, looks like an all in bet to me, then the guy takes them back and throws his cards away. This happened with 4 consecutive dealers and not one would enforce that as a bet when the chips were clearly in the betting area.

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You should have asked the dealer to call the floor so that i could yell at him when he said no.

[RR]

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He grabs a stack of 20 chips and counts 'em out in front of his cards (his cards are way far back). He grabs another stack of 20 and starts to count and the dealer says "no sir, it's going to be 20".

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I don't think that was what was goign on here, but where would these "in front of cards" guys like a player to count his own chips? It is very common for NL players to wnat to count out a bet and see how much they would have left to make a decision on whether or not to put the money in the pot. Any rule that forces a player to do something other than what he clearly inteded to do is a bad rule.

[loosemmjan]

Like all things poker in it just depends.

I played a tourney in Vegas and announced a raise of 150.

I tossed in 125 mistakingly, upon noticing the the mistake I then proceeded to toss in another 25.

The dealer tossed the 25 back saying the bet was 125.00, thus overriding my verbal raise.

I didn't argue the table didn't seem to care. It wasn't a string bet, I was just trying to make the pot right. I don't know what the dealer was thinking.

So... you can never depend on the human element being consistent.

~loose

[oddjob]

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But I'm less fond of betting lines.

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why? it makes things very clear.

[RR]

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But I'm less fond of betting lines.

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why? it makes things very clear.

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Only if there is a line judge. I have an essay here I have been working on for a few month (meaning I have an outline and I need ot go back and write it) about the problems with betting lines. Betting lines are clearly in smaller markets where people just don't shoot big angles. The main thing a betting line does is introduce new angle to shoot. One I saw most recetnly the other day is a player picks up some chips and throws them forward so they stop short of the betting line. Someone sitting next to the player can see they are over the line, but someone at the other end of the table jsut sees that he threw some chips forward.

[oddjob]

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[ QUOTE ]
But I'm less fond of betting lines.

[/ QUOTE ]

why? it makes things very clear.

[/ QUOTE ]

Only if there is a line judge. I have an essay here I have been working on for a few month (meaning I have an outline and I need ot go back and write it) about the problems with betting lines. Betting lines are clearly in smaller markets where people just don't shoot big angles. The main thing a betting line does is introduce new angle to shoot. One I saw most recetnly the other day is a player picks up some chips and throws them forward so they stop short of the betting line. Someone sitting next to the player can see they are over the line, but someone at the other end of the table jsut sees that he threw some chips forward.

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?? how far away is this player?? how can you not see the chips haven't crossed the betting line.

[RR]

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[ QUOTE ]
But I'm less fond of betting lines.

[/ QUOTE ]

why? it makes things very clear.

[/ QUOTE ]

Only if there is a line judge. I have an essay here I have been working on for a few month (meaning I have an outline and I need ot go back and write it) about the problems with betting lines. Betting lines are clearly in smaller markets where people just don't shoot big angles. The main thing a betting line does is introduce new angle to shoot. One I saw most recetnly the other day is a player picks up some chips and throws them forward so they stop short of the betting line. Someone sitting next to the player can see they are over the line, but someone at the other end of the table jsut sees that he threw some chips forward.

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?? how far away is this player?? how can you not see the chips haven't crossed the betting line.

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One end of the table to other can be about 8 feet. You have to remember that B&M poker is also played by people that are older and can't see so clearly. Betting lines are good for friendly games where nobody is willing to shoot angles. In games (markets) where people are willing to shoot angles it creates new problems that are much harder to deal with. Suppose someone has a large stack of chips in front of him. He places some out over the line, he thens brings them back and puts them back in his stack without giving anyone an opportunity to count them while they were over the line. How many would you suggest he has to put back in the pot?