Reads - WW strategy

[traz]

lastchance, I'm going to respond because I know you put alot of effort into this.

I actually read everything. Basically, I feel like it can all be cliffnoted as such:

"Players play differently as wolves than they do as villagers. Notice when they're playing differently and lynch them"

To me, your post says a whole lot of nothing. It's super general, and really doesn't help at all. I think most people KNOW that wolves play differently from villagers. The hard part is accurately spotting the differences.

This game isn't ridiculously deep. There is only so far that analysis and strategy can take you. You either get good at spotting wolves or you don't

[clowntable]

Fundamental theorem of WW:
If, as a villager, you read a player differently than if you knew his PM, the wolves gain.

[kyro]

[ QUOTE ]
lastchance, I'm going to respond because I know you put alot of effort into this.

I actually read everything. Basically, I feel like it can all be cliffnoted as such:

"Players play differently as wolves than they do as villagers. Notice when they're playing differently and lynch them"

To me, your post says a whole lot of nothing. It's super general, and really doesn't help at all. I think most people KNOW that wolves play differently from villagers. The hard part is accurately spotting the differences.

This game isn't ridiculously deep. There is only so far that analysis and strategy can take you. You either get good at spotting wolves or you don't

[/ QUOTE ]


This is like, exactly what I said, only I was much more of a dick because I think it's funny that lastchance does pretty much the exact opposite of all of this. Instead of, you know, having reads and playing like the book, he tries to outfancy everyone because he thinks it makes him special or something.

[lastchance]

Traz, I said some stuff there was more specific than that. The main point is super-general, because it's all about context and timing.

But here's the thing. Every villager will make the same type of wrong reads and right reads.

Very few villagers clear people that are pushing them.

Very few villagers clear people who confuse them.

Very few villagers attack villagers who think like they do.

Also, every villager interacts the same way from game to game unless wolves are involved. Me and shortline talk whenever he's around. Traz always pushes me (a bunch of ppl do). Mets flirts with VR. A bunch of people puke at Neil's posts.

These things do not change unless wolves are involved. And wolves don't fake this well.

The other specific thing was not to think about how people would play as wolves, but how they would play as villagers.

[lastchance]

The point I'm making is not this:
"Players play differently as wolves than they do as villagers. Notice when they're playing differently and lynch them"

It's this:
"The game is different based on who's a wolf and who's a villager. Villagers will play differently based on who the wolves are."

[traz]

Interactions and tendencies change depending on who's a wolf and who's a villager. Yes. Anything else?

Again, you're focusing on the wrong aspect. Everyone KNOWS that. The key is being good at detecting these changes. This thread doesn't really offer any new insight as to how to accomplish that

[traz]

Pretty much the only thing that you've said that I think is somewhat valuable is to look at who a person is pushing/clearing, and try to determine whether or not they would do that as a villager.

But again, this is nothing earthshattering, the hard part is successfully doing it.

Most people know how to be good in theory, they're just not good in practice.

[lastchance]

[ QUOTE ]
Interactions and tendencies change depending on who's a wolf and who's a villager. Yes. Anything else?

Again, you're focusing on the wrong aspect. Everyone KNOWS that. The key is being good at detecting these changes. This thread doesn't really offer any new insight as to how to accomplish that

[/ QUOTE ]
It's mostly memory and experience (yeah).

But you know, I think people are too focused on the changes that the wolf makes from game to game. Very few people think about what villagers should be thinking given a set of wolves.

Examples:
Being confused as to who the wolves were should have led me to scott (because he's confusing and good at wolfing). People not pushing scott should have led me to scott.

It's not just about a wolf's posts.

It's about what villagers post (because of who the wolves are).

More examples:
Shortline getting pushed and still having votes on him near the end of d3 is villagery, because as a wolf, he's nigh-impossible to lynch.

Shorty being cleared is wolfy for him.

Villagers who think alike should clear each other. Dustin/Boj clearing each other is really, really natural. Dustin/Herbie every game is also huge to look at.

Scott/BPM should push each other hard and berate each other.

Clown, Eskimo, MDD, traz a bunch of people should be attacking me almost EVERY game.

Dustin should basically never push me. I should almost never push Dustin.

In general, villagers don't play/think differently because of changes to their playing style. They play differently because of who the wolves are, and this is very readable.

I don't think many people have think about this a lot. I think people have it in the back of their mind, but I don't think it's very conscious.

[DustinG]

[ QUOTE ]

Dustin should basically never push me.


[/ QUOTE ]

When I see the one tell on you that I know- then I'm going after you relentlessly.
[ QUOTE ]


I should almost never push Dustin.


[/ QUOTE ]

this is true

[Zurvan]

So, combine traz's thoughts, with kyro's attitude, and put them under my name. It'll save me typing things out.