NL HU SNG 11$

[Revolvermann]

second hand in the sng. didn`t play against villain before.

FullTiltPoker Game #3531253077: $11 + $0.50 Heads Up Sit & Go (26969515), Table 1 - 15/30 - No Limit Hold'em - 15:52:14 ET - 2007/09/11
Seat 1: villain(1,515)
Seat 2: hero (1,485)
villainposts the small blind of 15
hero posts the big blind of 30
The button is in seat #1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to hero [Qh Jc]
villain raises to 60
hero calls 30
*** FLOP *** [Jh 6c Qs]
hero bets 120
villain calls 120
*** TURN *** [Jh 6c Qs] [6h]
her bets 120
villain calls 120
*** RIVER *** [Jh 6c Qs 6h] [9s]
hero bets 270
villain raises to 1,215, and is all in
hero ????????????????


call or fold?? i wasn`t sure what to do...

[hra146]

What on earth is going on with your turnbet?

As played I fold.

[Revolvermann]

yeah 1/3 turnbet looks weak... i know....

[dippy111]

As played its a definite call. But yeah, bet more on turn. I think you see a straight or a 6 alot here but you also see lot's of other [censored] enough to make this a good call.

[TNixon]

Anybody who is capable of folding top 2 on that board in an $11 SNG has to be capable of making a *much* better read than I've ever had on any opponent at that level, ever.

Even at higher stakes, I see people push in situations like this with AA, KK, a lone queen (and not even necessarily with the A or K kicker), or even complete nothing way too often to fold the best two pair.

Then again, I'm on a MASSIVELY negative downswing, and in the process of trying to put together a long video to hopefully have people point out how truly stupid I really am, so maybe you shouldn't listen to me. :/

[Revolvermann]

lol@TNixon

after his push i wasn`t sure if i`m ahead or not. so i decided to fold and wait for a better spot to put the chips in.

but if i read the HH now i may should call the allin.

[hra146]

[ QUOTE ]


Even at higher stakes, I see people push in situations like this with AA, KK


[/ QUOTE ]


AA and KK beat you here, but thanks for proving my point.

I dont get why people use the "its a 11$" argument to CALL stuff. If anything it should be an argument for pushing yourself.

Ive played 240 6s and 11s and I just dont see these people everybody is talking about. They are CALLING stations, not pushing stations.

They might go for stupid bluffs more often than midstake players, but they very very rarely push a lone Q no kicker here because theyre "overvaluing" it. They may push it as a bluff.

The reason why lowstake HU opposition sucks so much is cause they usually play FR or 6max. They are UNDERvaluing hands more than they are overvaluing.

Even if its a bluff it isnt a bad one cause hes repping a real hand. KT or a made FH as he is IP.

Im not sure how much research you guys have done on "How does the average 11$ opposition react to a 3barreled riverscarecard if you bet the turn weakly" but Im not calling this.

[TNixon]

[ QUOTE ]
so i decided to fold and wait for a better spot to put the chips in.

[/ QUOTE ]
You must see lots of spots better than top 2 on relatively unthreatening boards than I do. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I did realize posthumously that you're behind to AA or KK as well, though, a factor which has almost certainly contributed to my massive downswing. :/

Basically you're losing to sets, any 6, overpairs, KT and 8T, while basically only beating a bluff or a retard, so I guess this isn't a bad spot to fold.

Part of my problem is that I'm too willing to assign the retard title, especially at $11s.

[TNixon]

[ QUOTE ]
They might go for stupid bluffs more often than midstake players, but they very very rarely push a lone Q no kicker here because theyre "overvaluing" it.

[/ QUOTE ]
I see this on a very consistent basis at $33s and $55s, much less $11s. And it's not necessarily because they're overvaluing it, but because the board pair means they're at least tied with most other queens. And to be honest, the small bets look more like a scared weak queen than anything else, so it's not at all difficult to imagine AQ or KQ feeling pretty good about their hand.

But yeah, you're probably right.

Of course, I would have also made a much bigger bet on the turn, making it *very* difficult to fold the river if he just called (but making it much more likely that a 6 is going to push the turn, in which case I'd probably give more thought to folding to a raise on the turn)

[ QUOTE ]
The reason why lowstake HU opposition sucks so much is cause they usually play FR or 6max. They are UNDERvaluing hands more than they are overvaluing.

[/ QUOTE ]
I've also seen 3 barrels from TP weak kicker, or even second or third pair, often enough to disagree with this (I see *way* more opponents that overvalue hands than I do that undervalue), but your mileage may vary.

Oh yeah, and if we're offering games played as evidence of what we have or haven't seen:
[ QUOTE ]
Ive played 240 6s and 11s and I just dont see these people everybody is talking about.

[/ QUOTE ]
I've played 1100+ games $11 and less, and three times that many if we throw in games up through $50.

Sad that I can still suck bad enough to lose $3k of a $3500 bankroll after playing that many games.

[img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[hra146]

holy crap, 1100 11s and less?

Can you post some PT screens in the LC thread? Id be really interested in what your stats look like.