20/40 foxwoods, flop spot

[BigBadBabar]

this hand is posted for nina

full table. 2 fish limp, taggy sb raises, we call 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] in bb.

flop q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

sb leads.

we were thinking this is a probably raise or fold right, probably (this is babar thinking) leaning a bit more toward raise? what do you guys think?

edited to put in that we agreed it was raise or fold, nina didn't say what she thought, and i (babar) think maybe raise.

[Garland]

[ QUOTE ]
this hand is posted for nina

full table. 2 fish limp, taggy sb raises, we call 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] in bb.

flop q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

sb leads.

we were thinking this is a probably raise or fold right, probably leaning a bit more toward raise? what do you guys think?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, I'm leaning the way heck towards folding. Before calling that one extra small bet pre-flop, know what you're looking for in a flop. This isn't it.

Garland

[Jeffage]

Exactly - he either has AK or you're tortured and he's not folding. And someone behind you could have a queen as well. It's muckville time.

Jeff

[tessarji]

The pair on the flop hurts you more than it helps. While he might not have a queen, you have a terrible hand because you can't even suck out with two pair.

Unless you have an extremely specific read on this player that he doesn't have a pair yet, fold.

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
this hand is posted for nina

full table. 2 fish limp, taggy sb raises, we call 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] in bb.

flop q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

sb leads.

we were thinking this is a probably raise or fold right, probably leaning a bit more toward raise? what do you guys think?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, I'm leaning the way heck towards folding. Before calling that one extra small bet pre-flop, know what you're looking for in a flop. This isn't it.

Garland

[/ QUOTE ]

Indeed...while it is difficult to fold a low, suited one-gapper preflop getting 7:1, the fact that your position sucks relative to the raiser means that on the flop you often will: be forced to make difficult decisions about hands which may be ahead but have terrible reverse implied odds or face a possible squeeze when you flop a draw.

[jba]

this depends on who the sb is and how wide his range is. you should raise the flop if I'm the sb but against most players in this game it's a fold.

[James.]

yeah, i'm usually in the fold camp.

by raising we do have the sweet advantage of folding out the fish and getting HU with the taggy SB who showed a decent amount of strength pf(although one could argue he was trying to get you out of the pot so he would have the fish to himself).

i'm calling pf. i might call the flop, but if my options are raise or fold, i fold.

[Yads]

This is a tough spot, I used to raise in these spots, but I agree with the posters saying that you have terrible reverse implied odds in this spot. I think it's muck time since you can't even suck out with 2 pair.

[ClarkNasty]

Whatever to this thread so far. First, it's not raise or fold. You certainly can call here. Raise vs. Call depends on the predictability of the SB. A good TAG has a range lots larger than AK AA-99 here. This "he's got AK or we're toast" stuff is way too pessimistic unless he's not a TAG at all, and rather is weak tight.

Let's put it like this, I'm no LAG, but my range here with two retards limping in, my SB and a decent BB I don't want in my pot: A9s, ATo, JTs, 88 and up.

[Scary_Tiger]

I like a raise.