Is collusion profitable in STTs?

[KCW12]

I've been thinking about collusion between players sharing hole card info over the phone or IM, but is this actually a losing tactic in STTs? I've had two conflicting thoughts about this one. Assume the two colluding players are sharing hole card info, avoiding showdows with each other, dumping chips, etc., basically trying to maximize their total equity depending on the situation. They agree to split the profits at the end. Here are my two conflicting arguments:

- This is profitable because the other 8 players are losing equity by playing with the colluding players, thus the equity lost must go to the cheaters.

- This is not profitable because the colluding players are paying double the buy-in for the chance to win the same prize pool. In order to gain equity, they must win at a rate that is double what they would win by playing individually, and I don't think this large an advantage is possible.

Thoughts?

[bacats32]

I think it is not profitable in STT but if you play with one other person 2 tables (or more) and if you go 5 tables I think that 3 players are good. Or horses instead of players. I do think that you have to switch strategy to more tight and no bluff tactic because the goal is to get all the horses to the money. The more in or the further obv. the better.

[jesse8888]

If I was able to completely control the actions of two seats in a STT, I can assure you my ROI would go up. Now if you were stupid about it and tried to communicate your cards over IM and stuff and made mistakes, you could probably donk it up pretty badly. Theoretically though, I'm sure it works.

Interestingly though, for some structures theres a point where this wouldn't hold up. In a 10 man 5+1 sng, if you controlled 9 players you couldn't possibly make a profit, as the 9 of you would pay 9 dollars in rake and only be trying to collect 5 dollars from the 10th player.

[JulioYalil]

not somethin that i'm proud of. i don't do this anymore and i won't go into detail w/ it. that being said i assure u if used properly it's a huge advantage. i was runnin really bad for an extended period of time a little less than 2 yrs ago. i developed a strategy for STT in teams, convinced 2 friends to help me out, and in a couple of days i had more than my original bankroll back in my account. if not properly done u WILL get caught (i personally know people that have had their accounts frozen b/c of this). also, u r better off just learning basic STT strat. u will crush low and mid stakes STTs if u become a solid player in them, no need for cheatin.

[vetiver]

[ QUOTE ]
not somethin that i'm proud of. i don't do this anymore and i won't go into detail w/ it. that being said i assure u if used properly it's a huge advantage. i was runnin really bad for an extended period of time a little less than 2 yrs ago. i developed a strategy for STT in teams, convinced 2 friends to help me out, and in a couple of days i had more than my original bankroll back in my account. if not properly done u WILL get caught (i personally know people that have had their accounts frozen b/c of this but I didn't have to worry because we colluded play money SNGs). also, u r better off just learning basic STT strat. u will crush low and mid stakes STTs if u become a solid player in them, no need for cheatin.

[/ QUOTE ]

[atm_smasher]

On your second point that they are playing for the same prize pool, that is assuming that they never both make the money. Either top 2 or three. I don't have the math right now, but I don't think they need to double their winning rate. Just a thought.