a pair of 40/80 bb hands

[target]

I'm new to the 40 at Garden City, San Jose -- I spend a decent amount of time in the 20 though. Two hands:

Woman in early middle raises. She has her purse on her lap with a book by Jack Welch on it, which makes me think she's probably not going to play a huge number of hands. However I've seen her limp early with JTo in a previous hand, so she's not *that* tight.

Folded to me in the bb, I defend with A7o. Flop comes JxJd3d. I check, she bets, I check-raise, she thinks and calls. Turn is a 4, I bet, she calls. River is a Q, I check, she checks and tables Qd9d. Opinions?

Later, utg fish open raises, one cold caller, sb calls, I defend with 4s3s. Flop comes Qs5c6c. Sb checks, I check, utg bets all in, mp folds, sb check-raises, what's my play? What's my plan for the turn?

[Fianchetto]

Hand 1: Fold preflop. Fold flop.

Hand 2: 3-bet, take a free card if you don't improve.

[n.s.]

hand 1: fold PF, fold the flop, fold the turn. Even if she's not a rock, A7o is likely way behind her PF raising range from EP, and you've got terrible RIO. You completely missed the flop and I think you are going to have a hard time getting her to lay down any sort of hand at all. Players like this, in my experience, tend to play tightish PF, but when they get involved in a hand they get very stubborn (especially heads-up).

hand 2: I'd probably just call the flop, call the turn, and fold the river u/i (obviously raise the turn or river if you catch your straight or back-door flush). There's no point in getting fancy in a nearly dry side pot, since you'll never beat the all-guy with the 2nd nut low.

In general, when you move up a limit I think it's best to play pretty straightforward at first and consciously avoid fancy plays. There was a big thread about moving up a while back, and a lot of people said the same thing.

[Garland]

[ QUOTE ]
Opinions?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hand 1: You should fold pre-flop, and she missed a value bet on the river.

[ QUOTE ]
Later, utg fish open raises, one cold caller, sb calls, I defend with 4s3s. Flop comes Qs5c6c. Sb checks, I check, utg bets all in, mp folds, sb check-raises, what's my play? What's my plan for the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

Call and only raise if you make your hand. The main is protected by the all-in. In addition you may get a natural free card if a spade turn falls.

Garland

[target]

Hand 1: consensus of two says to fold preflop. If I know her raising standards include hands like Q9s, should I still fold? A7 seems pretty strong against tons of her hands there.

[n.s.]

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1: consensus of two says to fold preflop. If I know her raising standards include hands like Q9s, should I still fold? A7 seems pretty strong against tons of her hands there.

[/ QUOTE ]

First, you didn't know that she was capable of raising hands like that until after this hand was over (this is why you shouldn't post results) - everyone here is ignoring the results and offering information based on what you knew at the time.

Second, be careful about basing your calling standards on being able to beat the bottom end of her range - sometimes she'll have a real hand here too. Even if she raises all suited 2 gappers with at least one paint card (and everything better than that), you still aren't really a favorite (try pokerstoving it).

Finally, unless you know that's she's a real calling station, A7o suffers from terrible reverse implied odds - when you catch an A and are good, you'll have trouble getting much action from her, but when you miss or are dominated by a better A, you'll end up paying way too much to find out.

[tessarji]

[ QUOTE ]
If I know her raising standards include hands like Q9s, should I still fold?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes.

You are out of position and this hand is likely at the bottom of her range, and she probably folds it and similar hands much of the time.

If she establishes herself as a maniac by continuing to raise this and worse hands, you can start fighting back by re-raising her (preferably with position) and going to lots of showdowns.

Saying 'I saw this guy once raise with 75s and he got a lucky flop so now I never fold anything HU with him' is not only moronic, it is a major reason why good players raise with random hands on rare occasions.

[Jeffage]

Hand 1) Preflop is a cake fold, particularly a tightish woman who would probably have high raising standards. Then you totally miss and checdkraise - interesting decision on your part. IF she has a decent pocket pair, she calls all the way. If she has AK/AQ she probably calls as well hoping you're on a draw. PS - don't post the results, they bias responses and don't really prove "you were right."

Hand 2) If UTG is going all in for one bet, that means he can't raise your bet and clear the field. So why aren't you betting this yourself? I'd probably fold the flop as played since you have the ass-end of the draw and could hit and lose to a flush (either right away or when a 4th suited card comes on the end) or lose to a set/two pair when the board pairs. Please don't think about calling and raising the turn to try to take the pot down. If you (imo mistakenly) call, you are doing so to try to complete your hand and win in a showdown.

Jeff

[cgrohman]

1.) I would have folded pre-flop.
2.) If I play it like you, I bet this river in rthym.

[target]

Hand 2: We have one vote for 3-betting and taking a free card, a couple votes for calling, a vote for betting out instead of checking, and at least one vote for folding.

I think folding is out of the question. We're getting 5.5:1 on an open ender+backdoor flush draw. Unless someone has a Q and a flush draw, we easily have odds to draw, and while Q+flush draw are in the distributions of our opponents, so are a lot of other things.

So the question is, 3-bet for the free card, or just call. After thinking about it, I like calling better. It's possibe we'll get a free card on the turn anyway if the third club comes, and if the third club comes and the sb bets we can just fold. So if a third club comes, we pay nothing on the turn, as opposed to prepaying a bet for the turn on the flop.

Of course, if a nonclub comes, we'll wish we had 3-bet on the flop, unless the sb has a monster and reraised. Generally with a medium-weak draw, I should probably avoid fanciness.

Anyway, I three bet for the free card, took it on the 3 turn (more outs!), and caught a 7 on the river. The sb bet the river, I raised, and he paid me off with a Q. UTG had AK.