We win (AP Scandal v. 27)

[rothko]

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2) There is no evidence of cheating at any other major site wrong. betfair, party, prima

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wtf? link please.

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for starters

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What about Stars wcoop2007me?

Lawyers made the threads go away per Mat in ATF:

wcoop threads???

gg

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yes, there's the multiaccounting, but that's a little different.

[StoneColdTex]

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In this email why did they refer to steamroller? Wouldn't the normal response have been "stom@fiducix.com belongs to the Absolute Poker Staff". Unless the $300 transfer referred to steamroller. Is this the case? For those who have not seen the original explanation of this email look here for happyhappyhappy post:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...art=22&vc=1

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Because the guy that contacted support was playing at the table with a guy named steamroller... And steamroller asked him to beta test a new client. He was following up with support to find out if steamroller was in fact an AP employee.

[SL__72]

Also, as for proof of an attempted coverup:

We at least know the perpetrators tried to cover their tracks. If you remember, it seemed kind of small at the time, but when we figured out the rivieraltd.com email link (that it was hosted on an IP allocated to AP) they QUICKLY deleted all of the DNS info for that domain.

[ikestoys]

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rothko - Has anyone been punished for chipdumping at AP? Like ever?

its an important question, please don't ignore it. Its a big forum, someone would know somebody.

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dude, i have no idea. whether they did or not does not change what happened here.

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obviously it doesn't change what happened here, but it does hurt your claim that it was obvious there was a cover up because they missed the chip dumping.

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ugh, no it does not. ffs, they didn't miss it. they were told about it. they investigated it and said it was on the level.

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but if they were idiots and never took someone down for chip dumping... ok i'm done for realz...

btw I really think the news of the coverup is coming, it isn't established yet tho, in the same way our case in the beginning wasn't established.

[NoahSD]

Guys,
Once they denied cheating happened, they had no choice but to deny the existence of a superuser account. Admitting the existence of such an account could obviously be extremely damaging to security.

The thing that we should be focusing on Re: coverup is whether they knew cheating was going on.

Also, like I've said 50 times now, they were either incompetent or malicious. Regardless, people should get fired.

And again, very trustworthy guys on both 2p2 and P5s have sources inside AP right now. If something doesn't come out, it sounds like they'll find out about it and absolute will lose its shot at forgiveness.

[rothko]

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But it helps the claim of incompetence.

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if you're referring to what ike and i were discussing. no it does not.

[kahntrutahn]

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I still want to know what will be done to people who were targeted by AP/UB to get scammed because they were up to much.

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Wow, I didn't know anyone besides me felt like this about it. Magnificent

[SL__72]

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This comment is totally [censored] disgusting, as I've never even questioned any research done by anyone who was here in the beginning. As a matter of fact, I helped moved the investigation into cash games after the initial allegations with POTRIPPER surfaced.

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I take no stance on anything else ikestoys has done/where he's played/whatever, but would like to confirm that this is true and he's been very helpful since early on.

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QFT.

Also, thanks Marco for basically reopening this public investigation.

[rothko]

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but if they were idiots and never took someone down for chip dumping... ok i'm done for realz...

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yes, i know what you're trying to say, but that doesn't apply in this instance. anyway, this is annoying . . .

[Michaelson]

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Can someone in the know make a list of the lies that have been told by AP during their attempt to coverup?

At this point they shouldn't just be answering to the behavior of the players who comprised their system, but their own behavior over the past month.

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View it from their perspective tho, hell view an analogous situation in BBV. What if all this was started not by a mod, but by some no name scrub with 5 posts? Would you take him seriously? I'm pretty sure I wouldn't, and most of BBV would just make fun of him. (Hell we do it all the time) This is how Absolute viewed our allegations in the beginning imo until its proven otherwise.

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Maybe I'm mistaken, but isn't the big problem with this that even a cursory glance of the events complained about would have revealed to AP that Potripper was AJ Green, a former, or perhaps current, high up employee of AP. That being the case, you'd expect special notice to be taken of the claim, and ideally, extra care taken in checking them out. Nevertheless, until a few hours ago, and in the face of more and more damning evidence, they've continued to deny all allegations.

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1.) You'd hope so, but we don't know.
2.) They haven't been issuing blanket denials for at least 3 days now, which was the last time I updated them on this thread. Instead they wrote down what I had to say.

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I missed a large part of the most recent cliff notes thread, but the most recent statement I read before the one that prompted this thread, basically said "It would be absolutely impossible for our software to be cheated in the way allegations against us have claimed, but if it has been then we'll make restitution." (Maybe that's innacurate, and I'll check the actual press release in a second to double check). Now that might not be a blanket denial, but only because it's logically incoherant. It's clear they have been incredibly resistant to owning up to the facts of this case.

BTW, I have a lof of sympathy for your perspective, and I understand completely that getting your money from AP is priority #1. But that doesn't give you a priveledged perspective, it just gives you a different one. From where I'm sitting, if they refund the money, release some press statement full of half truths, hold no one accountable and get back to the business they know and love--running one of the major online poker sites--that is a very poor result for online poker in general. For one thing, if this cheating goes as deep as it might, and is in fact tied up with people who have an active say in the running of the business, and they remain in business, then that is a horrible precedent and will be a reference point for players who are inclined to distrust online poker. In a years time, if Absolute Poker is still in business with Scott Tom behind the scenes, what's the response to the online poker is rigged crew? "Nah, could never happen, the sites just have too much to lose..."

More important than that, though, is that if we just give AP the benefit of the doubt, it's plausible that all sorts of related misconduct will be swept under the rug.

If AP do not address all of the concerns regarding their operations adequately, and reveal exactly what happened in this case, sack anyone who'se involvement was questionable, and demonstrate that they have taken appropriate steps to remidy the situation with the implementation of a tried and tested new security system, anyone who continues playing there I believe is 1) foolish, and 2) doing a disservice to online poker.