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#1
06-06-2007, 10:05 PM
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check behind on the river?
open raise on the button w/ Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. loose passive bb calls.
flop: 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. he checks, i bet, he calls. turn: K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] he checks, i bet, he calls river: A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] he checks, ???? im interested to know who three barrels here, and who just checks behind and why. 
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#2
06-06-2007, 10:08 PM
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Re: check behind on the river?
dont bet. you know when you AK here and they call with 75?
that's what's gonna happen. you beat all draws other than Q high flush draws.
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#3
06-06-2007, 10:20 PM
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Re: check behind on the river?
[ QUOTE ]
dont bet. you know when you AK here and they call with 75? that's what's gonna happen. you beat all draws other than Q high flush draws. [/ QUOTE ] Miles is right against most loose/passives but against a tag I would bet this river 100% of the time. I just cant help myself in this spot.
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#4
06-06-2007, 11:23 PM
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Re: check behind on the river?
so i wanted to get some opinions before i posted this, but this hand is actually taken directly from the quiz section of stox's book. here is the answer that the book gives:
"you should bet. since the flop is fairly coordinated (containing both flush and straight draws), there is a decent chance that your opponent had a drawing hand, which missed, and will fold to a river bet. Since there are 5.25 big bets in the pot, you need him to fold hands that beat you more than 16 percent of the time for this bet to be profitable." when i read this i disagreed with it, especially the part about getting the draw to fold. unless his draw paired up somewhere along the way, we have him beat already with q-high. im glad that im not the only one who disagreed with the answer given in the book.
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#5
06-06-2007, 11:28 PM
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Re: check behind on the river?
I was at the table today with you during a similar hand and noted it..
vs a thinking player this bet is essential some times(assuming for a second he has a hand other than ace high here), not because you really care much about call or a fold, but because of it's effect on future hands. If you bluff this card occasionaly, a pair of 8's or 7's is going to be very hard pressed to call. If they fold, yay you win pot! If they call, you have some "3-barrel advertising" which will allow you to value p0wn them on future hands. To a passive player, don't bother. They'll keep calling no matter what you do. I try to take the philosophy in short handed hold 'em to never look try to fold pairs against people who aren't good. Look for profitable sitautions to fold hands that miss the board only. How many bad players you know call down too much? How many bad players you know fold too much? I think your answer to those questions should answer your question about this hand. Most of the time I only go for the pair folding thing with thinking players that I can get into their thought process.
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#6
06-06-2007, 11:31 PM
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Re: check behind on the river?
I think there is another post on this hand somewhere. book forum maybe? mhsh?
anyways I think the consensus was to check behind I agree on the c behind here fwiw for the reasons miles gave. a LP never folds a pair and we beat all the draws.
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#7
06-07-2007, 01:09 AM
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Re: check behind on the river?
No. I think betting is right.
You bet the turn with a king appearing. And if you bet the river with even an A appearing, what do you think villain thinks of your hand? There are so many combos which would fold the hand on such a scary board.
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#8
06-07-2007, 09:06 AM
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Re: check behind on the river?
[ QUOTE ]
No. I think betting is right. You bet the turn with a king appearing. And if you bet the river with even an A appearing, what do you think villain thinks of your hand? There are so many combos which would fold the hand on such a scary board. [/ QUOTE ] This is giving a loose/bad way too much credit! I am with Miles on this. When I read the book I was very surprised that Stox advocated a bet here. The hand has been disussed already in mid high stakes shorthanded BTW.
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#9
06-07-2007, 12:03 PM
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Re: check behind on the river?
This is an awful BB to steal against. This hand history is precisely why you cant steal Q6s against a loose blind.
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#10
06-07-2007, 02:35 PM
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Re: check behind on the river?
[ QUOTE ]
When I read the book I was very surprised that Stox advocated a bet here. The hand has been disussed already in mid high stakes shorthanded BTW. [/ QUOTE ] does anyone have the link for this? [ QUOTE ] This is an awful BB to steal against. This hand history is precisely why you cant steal Q6s against a loose blind. [/ QUOTE ] i disagree, as long as you can play well after the flop you should be able to get value out of a hand like this vs a loose player.
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