some basic but fundamentally important preflop questions 2-4nl 6 max

[Marlow]

[ QUOTE ]
thoughts from a 19/12ish 6m player

1:
if my k9 is suited i raise, off suit i muck. maybe this is a tad tight but with not so hot hands like these i want that extra 4ish% of being suited.
2:
k9o again!? i may raise this time though, assuming i haven't raise alot reciently (which i rarely am!) since he's pretty tight it's fairly likily he has a real low pp or a suited connector. If i know he'll get tricky post flop and isn't cool with consistantly folding to cbets, i'd just fold. But if he's one of those 100% abc guys who PT tells me folds to 70% of flop bets i' definatly raise to 1) get heads up vs this guy, and 2) to punish him for not open raising.

3:
check, why raise crappy hands oop.
4:
i won't play j9o! suited i'd raise for the same reasons as #2

5:
i'd fold. and call suited sometimes
I know i may be okay vs his range but since a fair % of his range /dominates/ me i think calling is horrible. Reraising may be an option, but i don't want to reraise with that ace. I'd be more likily to mix it up and reraise him with 87s or 77 than A10. Sure, if i get the best hand i could get his cbet, but thats all i'd get from him most of the time, and i'd lose more if he has a better A or if he flops 2p with something like 109 or a set vs my ace.

pretty weak, but anytime i try to get tricky vs tricky solid opponents i get bitten. i'd rather avoid them without real solid values.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wrote out my answers before I read anyone else's, and had the same answers with the same reasoning. BUT, I will say that these are pretty context-free descriptions we've been given. After reading what duck had to say, I found myself also agreeing with her decisions. For me, most of these could go a number of ways depending on a numbher of other factors.

[luckychewy]

[ QUOTE ]
j9o strangely used to be QTo. now it's closer but i'd probably still limp it on the button.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why a call over raising?

[g-p]

limping on the button after the CO open limped is not good poker, unless CO has a very short buyin

[luckychewy]

[ QUOTE ]
limping on the button after the CO open limped is not good poker, unless CO has a very short buyin

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't agree with that. I think mixing it up is okay every now and then, just wondering what duck's reasons are for calling over raising.

[Ghazban]

[ QUOTE ]
limping on the button after the CO open limped is not good poker, unless CO has a very short buyin

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I disagree

[ipp147]

[ QUOTE ]
also, would you agree with this line of thought;

the money online is to be made by the weak players. take for example those who are too loose preflop given their later ability and lack of a successful LAG style. i aim to isolate these players by raising preflop with hands such as K9 when they have limped. you will be ahead more often than not, hence surely you want to increase the stakes preflop. if they are playing their 9 10 offs, or the K6s, then i get paid off, as they are likely loose postflop and will call me down. by raising preflop, obvious the pot size increases and so my bets throughout the hand is greater than if i just limped and hit my hand outkickering the loose opponent.

thats my thinking, which is why im surprised people so far advocate folding K9 in scenario 1.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think that the bulk of the easy money online is made from people going too far with their hands postflop. The simple example is a TPGK paying off your set for an entire stack

With a hand like K9o you don't have great equity over two opponents. You are not going to hit alot of flops you like. You are starting to create a big pot with a marginal hand that is going to make a hand like TPNK.

I would rather raise 55 or 76s here than K9o.

[john kane]

a fundamental in profitable poker i believe is the concept of missed gambles, where the pot gives the opponent odds to put in more chips despite the odds being in my favour in the single decision.

for example, in scenario 1, the loose players limp with 78off and 66, hands looses player would limp with. i raise with K9off and isolate them.

now im seeing a flop with position, and say it comes 58K. the guy with 66 may stay in, as well as the player with 78o, becuase they have already called a preflop raise (the 66 may not, but id expect the 78 to). the 78o will again call another bet on the turn, and you can check the river to avoid a check raise if you know he is capable of check raising having rivered two pair.

this is obviously good. you will miss the flop obviously 2 out of 3, but given that your getting preflop odds of only needing to hit 1 in 3 as you have two other callers. given you are going in with likely a better hand with position, the times you do hit will be profitable enough postflop to compensate losing the other 2 hands.

this makes sense to raise imo.

if the players were tight, then he may have A9 or K10,JK,QK, but given the scenario im suggesting to raise is with 2 loose, as tracker/office will tell you, then i think in this scenario it is right to raise.

[mason55]

this thread makes me feel like i'm in bizzarro world

[Ghazban]

[ QUOTE ]
a fundamental in profitable poker i believe is the concept of missed gambles, where the pot gives the opponent odds to put in more chips despite the odds being in my favour in the single decision.

for example, in scenario 1, the loose players limp with 78off and 66, hands looses player would limp with. i raise with K9off and isolate them.

now im seeing a flop with position, and say it comes 58K. the guy with 66 may stay in, as well as the player with 78o, becuase they have already called a preflop raise (the 66 may not, but id expect the 78 to). the 78o will again call another bet on the turn, and you can check the river to avoid a check raise if you know he is capable of check raising having rivered two pair.

this is obviously good. you will miss the flop obviously 2 out of 3, but given that your getting preflop odds of only needing to hit 1 in 3 as you have two other callers. given you are going in with likely a better hand with position, the times you do hit will be profitable enough postflop to compensate losing the other 2 hands.

this makes sense to raise imo.

if the players were tight, then he may have A9 or K10,JK,QK, but given the scenario im suggesting to raise is with 2 loose, as tracker/office will tell you, then i think in this scenario it is right to raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Its easy to come up with a specific situation where making a certain play will work out well. However, the important thing to consider is the overall profitability of your action summed over the range of your opponents' holdings and subsequent actions (this includes the relative likelihood of each action they make with each holding later in the hand).

Your post here reminds me of Lisa's tiger-repelling rock in the Simpsons....

[g-p]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
limping on the button after the CO open limped is not good poker, unless CO has a very short buyin

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I disagree

[/ QUOTE ]
then you aren't a strong player