readless with top trips

[jba]

[ QUOTE ]
Hang on a minute - for not 3 betting to be correct we have to assume the guy just called the flop with aces up or a wheel in a 3 way pot when he had the SB trapped, and no reason to believe you would bet the turn for him. A guy that does this sucks, and a guy that sucks can clearly have any ace here on the turn. GAS.

[/ QUOTE ]

if we don't discount any trips or better and we can agree that 3betting anything worse is bad then 3betting becomes bad. i had a very very hard time trying to come up with a range where we have >66% equity. most realistic ones IMHO are <55.

[Victor]

"a guy that sucks can clearly have any ace here on the turn"

ya, my initial thoughts too. then i stoved equally weighting any ace, 45s, and any set. 3betting just about neutral ev.

but realize that 45o can be within the range. and aq can be somewhat discounted.

so, ya, he can have any ace and i agree he will have any ace. but that still makes 3betting wrong.

[DeathDonkey]

You guys are right, after stoving it some I see what you mean. The only way I can get it above 66% is by giving him all Ax hands and no sets or straights. Clearly this is too biased towards being optimistic so I must admit my previous argument was wrong. Very interesting that if the turn is a king our equity is huge but because we have 3 of the aces accounted for the baby sets and straights become so much more likely on this board.

-DeathDonkey

[Dave Mac]

can the villian ever have 66 to 99 here? obv. you have no read so you don't know for sure but....
dave

[PokerBob]

[ QUOTE ]
can the villian ever have 66 to 99 here? obv. you have no read so you don't know for sure but....
dave

[/ QUOTE ]

maybe. but he's gonna ditch it when we 3bet him.

[PokerBob]

[ QUOTE ]
at first i thought 3bet, but after stoving a bit you should def call down.

[/ QUOTE ]

can you post the stove results please?

[vmacosta]

[ QUOTE ]
at first i thought 3bet, but after stoving a bit you should def call down.

[/ QUOTE ]

wow, this is really surprising. I was starting to snicker at the thought of not 3-betting.

[Scary_Tiger]

[ QUOTE ]

although speaking of ???? what do you mean by:

"although c/c c/r with a hand that can beat AK on this board is pretty loony. "

also, it's weird that you pick that comment when you're saying 4bet and maybe raise river and I'm saying call down.


[/ QUOTE ]

Would anyone on this board ever c/c the flop with A3/A2/45/22/33/AA?

Live, I could see just calling as people make more retarded slowplays.

[Victor]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
at first i thought 3bet, but after stoving a bit you should def call down.

[/ QUOTE ]

can you post the stove results please?

[/ QUOTE ]

no. i figure everyone can figure out how to enter it. if they cant i dont care. if they dont believe me i dont care.

[Scary_Tiger]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
can the villian ever have 66 to 99 here? obv. you have no read so you don't know for sure but....
dave

[/ QUOTE ]

maybe. but he's gonna ditch it when we 3bet him.

[/ QUOTE ]

I see plenty of medium pairs showdown versus my turn 3-bet.