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#31
03-06-2007, 11:51 PM
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Re: 10/25NL at Foxwoods.........
Anyway, yes this hand was played against John . Do I know you JCmoussaux? I understand the whole +ev logic, but committing myself to this flop when im only 60/40 favorite over a flush draw in my eyes is gambling. If villain had a flush draw here, I know he's check raising me. If villain has set, I know he's check raising me. Me investing the 1200 into this pot gave me enough information to know that I have the best hand on the flop. The 6h on turn gives his hand more outs, considering I don't have a heart in my hand. Villain will call any bet here with a hand like JhJx, Ah10x, 9h9x. I know this, for pot controls sake I check behind this turn. That is pretty much the standard line here I guess from all your responses and my thinking as well.
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#33
03-07-2007, 01:03 AM
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Re: 10/25NL at Foxwoods.........
[ QUOTE ]
Anyway, yes this hand was played against John . Do I know you JCmoussaux? I understand the whole +ev logic, but committing myself to this flop when im only 60/40 favorite over a flush draw in my eyes is gambling. If villain had a flush draw here, I know he's check raising me. If villain has set, I know he's check raising me. [...] I know this, for pot controls sake I check behind this turn. That is pretty much the standard line here I guess from all your responses and my thinking as well. [/ QUOTE ] Your logic seems pretty wack -- if you're certain that he doesn't have a set and that he doesn't have a flush (b/c he would've checkraised flop with those hands), then why the hell aren't you pushing the turn? The pot is already out-of-control gigantic and you have the best hand and one ~pot-sized bet left.
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#34
03-07-2007, 01:13 AM
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Re: 10/25NL at Foxwoods.........
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Anyway, yes this hand was played against John . Do I know you JCmoussaux? I understand the whole +ev logic, but committing myself to this flop when im only 60/40 favorite over a flush draw in my eyes is gambling. If villain had a flush draw here, I know he's check raising me. If villain has set, I know he's check raising me. [...] I know this, for pot controls sake I check behind this turn. That is pretty much the standard line here I guess from all your responses and my thinking as well. [/ QUOTE ] Your logic seems pretty wack -- if you're certain that he doesn't have a set and that he doesn't have a flush (b/c he would've checkraised flop with those hands), then why the hell aren't you pushing the turn? The pot is already out-of-control gigantic and you have the best hand and one ~pot-sized bet left. [/ QUOTE ] b/c he's a giant puss who is playing outside what his bankroll can handle or he just lacks any fundamental knowledge of how to make money at poker?
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#35
03-07-2007, 01:13 AM
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Re: 10/25NL at Foxwoods.........
wow, op, you're a fish. congrats.
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#36
03-07-2007, 01:15 AM
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Re: 10/25NL at Foxwoods.........
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Anyway, yes this hand was played against John . Do I know you JCmoussaux? I understand the whole +ev logic, but committing myself to this flop when im only 60/40 favorite over a flush draw in my eyes is gambling. If villain had a flush draw here, I know he's check raising me. If villain has set, I know he's check raising me. [...] I know this, for pot controls sake I check behind this turn. That is pretty much the standard line here I guess from all your responses and my thinking as well. [/ QUOTE ] Your logic seems pretty wack -- if you're certain that he doesn't have a set and that he doesn't have a flush (b/c he would've checkraised flop with those hands), then why the hell aren't you pushing the turn? The pot is already out-of-control gigantic and you have the best hand and one ~pot-sized bet left. [/ QUOTE ] Are you bluff-pushing the turn? He has the flush a lot if you get called.
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#37
03-07-2007, 01:30 AM
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Re: 10/25NL at Foxwoods.........
"if villain had a flush draw, I know he's check/raising me." "if villain has a set, I know he's check/raising me" "he picked up a lot of outs" "I'm checking for pot control".
wtf. this is so stupid. you're ahead, he has lots of outs, you have one PSB left. PUSH IT IN FOR RAPTOR CHRIST'S SAKES!!!!
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#38
03-07-2007, 01:47 AM
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Re: 10/25NL at Foxwoods.........
[ QUOTE ]
"if villain had a flush draw, I know he's check/raising me." "if villain has a set, I know he's check/raising me" "he picked up a lot of outs" "I'm checking for pot control". wtf. this is so stupid. you're ahead, he has lots of outs, you have one PSB left. PUSH IT IN FOR RAPTOR CHRIST'S SAKES!!!! [/ QUOTE ] I don't think he has enough outs when behind to make pushing the turn better than checking behind.
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#39
03-07-2007, 02:16 AM
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Re: 10/25NL at Foxwoods.........
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] "if villain had a flush draw, I know he's check/raising me." "if villain has a set, I know he's check/raising me" "he picked up a lot of outs" "I'm checking for pot control". wtf. this is so stupid. you're ahead, he has lots of outs, you have one PSB left. PUSH IT IN FOR RAPTOR CHRIST'S SAKES!!!! [/ QUOTE ] I don't think he has enough outs when behind to make pushing the turn better than checking behind. [/ QUOTE ] This is all very circular logic by you and the OP to somehow get max value from a hand that doesnt exist. The only hand you are really beating now are a pp or 10. If you check behind on the turn, and a 4th heart hits, you lose all value from these hands that might call on the turn. If you think he would check raise always with a flush draw (this is a very big assumption considering your 12 dollar flop bet...who is looking to raise a draw here when they are getting it so cheap?), then what are you hoping to extract value from by checking? If the game is as loose as you described it "people getting into huge pots with top pair weak kicker" then why dont we want to extract value from the only hands we are beating on the turn? is our magical check from him going to appear to be AK and then hes going to fire all out on a non heart river with just a 10?
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#40
03-07-2007, 02:21 AM
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Re: 10/25NL at Foxwoods.........
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] "if villain had a flush draw, I know he's check/raising me." "if villain has a set, I know he's check/raising me" "he picked up a lot of outs" "I'm checking for pot control". wtf. this is so stupid. you're ahead, he has lots of outs, you have one PSB left. PUSH IT IN FOR RAPTOR CHRIST'S SAKES!!!! [/ QUOTE ] I don't think he has enough outs when behind to make pushing the turn better than checking behind. [/ QUOTE ] This is all very circular logic by you and the OP to somehow get max value from a hand that doesnt exist. The only hand you are really beating now are a pp or 10. If you check behind on the turn, and a 4th heart hits, you lose all value from these hands that might call on the turn. If you think he would check raise always with a flush draw (this is a very big assumption considering your 12 dollar flop bet...who is looking to raise a draw here when they are getting it so cheap?), then what are you hoping to extract value from by checking? If the game is as loose as you described it "people getting into huge pots with top pair weak kicker" then why dont we want to extract value from the only hands we are beating on the turn? is our magical check from him going to appear to be AK and then hes going to fire all out on a non heart river with just a 10? [/ QUOTE ] You're using OP's comments and applying them to my logic...I didn't say anything that you quoted... I could be wrong, I'm just a little slow on this one and was hoping someone could spell it out for me...
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