Is this a good river fold?

Wolfram · #1 09-23-2007, 12:29 PM

Villain is new at table. I'm playing tag (25/17)

PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is CO with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
2 folds, Hero raises, 1 fold, SB 3-bets, 1 fold, Hero calls.

Flop: (7 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (6.50 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.

River: (8.50 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 8.50 BB

jstill · #2 09-23-2007, 12:58 PM

u probably dont win here 9.5 to 1 tbh but u dont know the villain and this is PS 2/4, if ur gonna raise the flop calldown the 3bet id say... also the fact u play tag means nothing if the player is new

start by just calling the flop though I think thats the main leak in this hand (though I know some disagree with me here), Id probably raise a low spade turn otherwise just calldown and bet when ck'd to w/o more of a read that u should raise any turn (ie he ll bet calldown all PPs and A hi sometimes on any turn on coordinated boards and/or u can easily fold to a turn 3bet).

Teja500 · #3 09-23-2007, 01:13 PM

I like your play on the flop on the turn but i think its a very easy call on the river.

detruncate · #4 09-23-2007, 03:52 PM

I just call the flop in position and go from there. As played, it's probably an ok fold, but you've bloated the pot and have to at least think about calling vs an unknown. Which is why I don't raise the flop.

TheHip41 · #5 09-23-2007, 04:01 PM

call flop, call turn, call river.

if he checks, then bet.

joeyb · #6 09-23-2007, 11:13 PM

what makes just calling on the flop the best play here?

mjkidd · #7 09-23-2007, 11:39 PM

I agree with jstill that you should often call the flop here, but depending on your recent past with villain, you need to throw in some flop raises as well. If he's the sort of guy who's always worried about guys pumping draws on the flop, this is a pretty good flop to raise, hoping for him to call down with ace high. I think a flop call is fine too, but I really don't see how a call is superior to a raise; against many opponents, I think a raise is the better option here.

And no matter what my flop line is, I'm not folding unless it comes awful/awful. It didn't, so call.

TheHip41 · #8 09-24-2007, 05:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
what makes just calling on the flop the best play here?

[/ QUOTE ]

well, if you get bet/3bet on this flop, and a heart hits the turn, against a good tag, you are losing, so you have to call the turn, and fold the river UI.

I don't want to fold the river UI online with top pair in a big pot, so I just call down.

you get 2.5 BB from all A high hands, you lose 2.5BB to better hands, and you never fold the winner.

I'm not saying it's right, I just hate make super folds/burning money river calls against good players.

thepizzlefosho · #9 09-24-2007, 05:26 PM

hips line is the least exploitable by tricky aggressive villains, and helps avoid making a big mistake. I prefer taking lines like this against unknowns because it typically will make you near the max when ahead, keep you losing the minimum when behind, and help you get an important read on the villain for the future.

lippy · #10 09-24-2007, 05:55 PM

FWIW, I see villain show up with like 77-TT seemingly thinking, "you can't have a jack here, [censored]!"