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  #71  
Old 11-13-2007, 06:26 AM
wacki wacki is offline
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Default Re: Weather Channel Founder says\"Global Warming is Biggest Scam in His

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All great innovations that improved our lives were created by the profit motive

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computers weren't.

but even if solar were price competitive in 5 years, it would still take a ton of money to switch over.

I mean, the premise is that the entire earth is being destroyed by CO2. having said that it seems logical that if you accept that premise that you should do everything you can to get off fossil fuels and onto non CO2 emitting energy. that's all I'm saying. the fact that the global climate *answer* has nothing at all to do with non CO2 energy you have to admit is mighty suspicious and supports the theory that global warming is a hoax.

I mean look at france. most of electricity there is generated by nuclear power. so if the threat were real and a real solution were wanted, countries would at least discuss building more nuke plants to get off of oil/coal, at least for electricity generation.

I mean, even if you accept the premise that nuclear plants are unsafe, radioactive waste a problem, etc., what's that compared to the fact that THE ENTIRE PLANET IS BEING DESTROYED RIGHT NOW BY MANMADE CO2. WE MUST DO EVERYTHING WE CAN TO SAVE OURSELVES except build nuclear plants cause they make us nervous and they got bad press and jane fonda made a movie ... ok, that makes sense.

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I can't fathom anyone would think anything other than the profit motive led us to the great developments of the computer. IBM, Intel, Microsoft?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer

I just don't see how you could think that the great computer developments of this country are due to the efforts of the US Government.

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Well I'm not sure how you got that conclusion.

The two most famous vacuum tube computers were ENIAC and Colossus both of which were WWII military projects. They showed people that computers could have practical and highly important applications and were much more than toys. The biggest revolutions in computing hardware were the transistors (invented by a professor in Berlin) and the development of high quality integrated circuits (thanks to NASA).

The basic building blocks of the computer industry were laid out by university professors, wartime, and cold war projects. Then it was easy for business to take over and push innovation to new levels. But even today many very important and basic advancements still occur at the university level.

Sorry, but I highly doubt the computer would be anywhere near where it is today without government $$$$$. It's silly and grossly ignorant to claim government and universities made no contributions. There is even an article on CNET titled "How NASA helped invent Silicon Valley".
http://www.news.com/How-NASA-helped-...3-6211034.html

This "guvment can do no good" stuff has been debated ad nauseum and is just plain ignorant.
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  #72  
Old 11-13-2007, 06:47 AM
wacki wacki is offline
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Default Re: Weather Channel Founder says\"Global Warming is Biggest Scam in His

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Man produces less than 1% of green house gases and there is no proof that I can see showing that man is the cause of global warming. I would like to see some proof showing how less than 1% of green house gases is warming the earth anymore then it would be anyway.

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This argument is silly. Simple isotope measurements (among many other tools) prove beyond any doubt that fossil fuel based carbon is flooding the atmosphere. Ph.D.s that use this argument are simply trying to take advantage of those that dont understand 100 level geology and chemistry. Op-Eds of major newspapers are crap. Try finding a major scientific organization that supports your links. There are hundreds on the planet and not one of them will. Try doing some background searches on some of your experts. btw the OISM (you linked to at least one of their experts) is infamous for their "tobacco doesn't cause cancer" work.
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  #73  
Old 11-13-2007, 05:14 PM
PLOlover PLOlover is offline
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Default Re: Weather Channel Founder says\"Global Warming is Biggest Scam in His

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Well I'm not sure how you got that conclusion.

The two most famous vacuum tube computers were ENIAC and Colossus both of which were WWII military projects. They showed people that computers could have practical and highly important applications and were much more than toys. The biggest revolutions in computing hardware were the transistors (invented by a professor in Berlin) and the development of high quality integrated circuits (thanks to NASA).

The basic building blocks of the computer industry were laid out by university professors, wartime, and cold war projects. Then it was easy for business to take over and push innovation to new levels. But even today many very important and basic advancements still occur at the university level.

Sorry, but I highly doubt the computer would be anywhere near where it is today without government $$$$$. It's silly and grossly ignorant to claim government and universities made no contributions. There is even an article on CNET titled "How NASA helped invent Silicon Valley".
http://www.news.com/How-NASA-helped-...3-6211034.html

This "guvment can do no good" stuff has been debated ad nauseum and is just plain ignorant.


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yeah what he said.
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  #74  
Old 11-13-2007, 05:51 PM
Mark1808 Mark1808 is offline
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Default Re: Weather Channel Founder says\"Global Warming is Biggest Scam in His

The government could build an escalator to the clouds and greatly improve the escalator industry too. The profit motive and free markets create innovation and change, not Government. To call someone ignorant in an argument does not prove the argument. We sent a man to the moon, why doesn’t everyone have a little personal space ship to take them to the moon today if Government spending on a product can create an industry like you said they did with computers? Government did not invent the computer. Their demand for more computing power sparked innovation but without the profit motive that innovation would have died.
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  #75  
Old 11-13-2007, 05:56 PM
owsley owsley is offline
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Default Re: Weather Channel Founder says\"Global Warming is Biggest Scam in His

Could the government ever have possibly predicted what their investment in the computer would turn into? Did they have any inkling of what they were getting involved in when they started this research? This strikes me as the government getting somewhat lucky rather than a virtue of government research just because it is government research. There is nothing about this that private funding could not have accomplished. If you want to extol the benefits of government funded research you have to weigh it against the costs.
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  #76  
Old 11-14-2007, 03:31 AM
wacki wacki is offline
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Default Re: Weather Channel Founder says\"Global Warming is Biggest Scam in His

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The profit motive and free markets create innovation and change, not Government.

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Ya the nuclear bomb could never have been invented by a government project. You are totally correct.

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To call someone ignorant in an argument does not prove the argument.

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I have no intention of proving what would of happened if none of the government research programs occurred. Getting into an argument like that would be futile. I simply showed that your understanding of computer history is on the level of gross ignorance. And if you don't understand history how could you possibly predict the future?

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Government did not invent the computer.

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Does the government invent anything? Charles Babbage, a Cambridge professor, is often accredited for inventing the programmable computer.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Babbage

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Their demand for more computing power sparked innovation but without the profit motive that innovation would have died.

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Ya, nothing compares to profit industry. That's why you linked to Britannica instead of wikipedia. :-p

The world is not black and white, good or evil. Different talents for different folks. Altruistic research and profit motivated research both have their place. Until you learn that basic concept you will be blind.
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  #77  
Old 11-14-2007, 03:32 AM
wacki wacki is offline
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Default Re: Weather Channel Founder says\"Global Warming is Biggest Scam in His

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Could the government ever have possibly predicted what their investment in the computer would turn into?

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The idea of robots with computer brains becoming alive dates back to at least 1920 so the answer to your pessimistically worded question is an obvious "yes".

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Did they have any inkling of what they were getting involved in when they started this research?

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Again the answer to this highly pessimistic question is "yes". Especially with the Apollo program
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  #78  
Old 11-14-2007, 04:55 AM
Mark1808 Mark1808 is offline
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Default Re: Weather Channel Founder says\"Global Warming is Biggest Scam in His

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The profit motive and free markets create innovation and change, not Government.

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Ya the nuclear bomb could never have been invented by a government project. You are totally correct.

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To call someone ignorant in an argument does not prove the argument.

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I have no intention of proving what would of happened if none of the government research programs occurred. Getting into an argument like that would be futile. I simply showed that your understanding of computer history is on the level of gross ignorance. And if you don't understand history how could you possibly predict the future?

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Government did not invent the computer.

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Does the government invent anything? Charles Babbage, a Cambridge professor, is often accredited for inventing the programmable computer.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Babbage

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Their demand for more computing power sparked innovation but without the profit motive that innovation would have died.

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Ya, nothing compares to profit industry. That's why you linked to Britannica instead of wikipedia. :-p

The world is not black and white, good or evil. Different talents for different folks. Altruistic research and profit motivated research both have their place. Until you learn that basic concept you will be blind.

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Greed is good. Until you learn that point you will continue to work for the man. My guess is you work for a wage and vote Democrat.

When Government directs resources it is ineffecient no matter what good comes of it. Government does not allocate resorces effeciently or to the highest and best use. Government takes money by force and uses it a way that it would not be used in a competitive market.


I don't think you are blind or ignorant, your life experiences are simply differant than mine. When you call someone blind and ignorant and then say their is no black and white etc., I hope you realize you contradict yourself. Do you see why?
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  #79  
Old 11-15-2007, 12:17 PM
wacki wacki is offline
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Default Re: Weather Channel Founder says\"Global Warming is Biggest Scam in His

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Greed is good. Until you learn that point you will continue to work for the man.

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Did you learn economics from Hollywood?

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My guess is you work for a wage and vote Democrat.

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There are 3 parties (Libs, Dems, and Republicans) you guessed which one I vote for the least.

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When Government directs resources it is ineffecient no matter what good comes of it. Government does not allocate resorces effeciently or to the highest and best use.

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Well if you can't get your historical facts right then making unsupported absolute ideological proclamations certainly seems to be the way to go. I'm not denying that there is waste in government. There certainly is. But your absolute decrees that government can never do something as well as or better than private industry is just silly. Your own examples in this thread should prove that.

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Government takes money by force and uses it a way that it would not be used in a competitive market.

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In the case of computers that was apparently a very good thing. According to a few topics I read on the subject private industry supported discrete circuits and not integrated circuits due to cheaper short term costs. Private industry rarely looks into the future beyond timelines that are profitable under current patent laws.

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I don't think you are blind or ignorant, your life experiences are simply differant than mine. When you call someone blind and ignorant and then say their is no black and white etc., I hope you realize you contradict yourself. Do you see why?

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I should rephrase. Life is not a binary black and white. Everything is situational. But arguments put forward in your posts do in fact put you pretty far in the dark side of ignorant when it comes to the history of computing, geology and basic physics. Your argument that:

I can't fathom anyone would think anything other than the profit motive led us to the great developments of the computer.

Displays that pretty well. The development of the IC was about weight and power which was required for NASA missions. Monetary profit of some corporation had nothing to do with the decision to go for ICs. Development of the IC was going to happen "at all costs".

Maybe you should read up on history a little more before you start preaching the binary "greed is good, guvment is evil" ideology.

you can have the last word. I doubt I will responding to this thread again.
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  #80  
Old 11-15-2007, 12:39 PM
adios adios is offline
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Default Re: Weather Channel Founder says\"Global Warming is Biggest Scam in His

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.... Displays that pretty well. The development of the IC was about weight and power which was required for NASA missions. Monetary profit of some corporation had nothing to do with the decision to go for ICs. Development of the IC was going to happen "at all costs". ....

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While I agree with your points here, I have some serious doubts that government agencies are up to tasks like this today. My pessimism stems from working many years for defense contractors and DOE funded national lab. Could be convinced otherwise though.
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