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  #301  
Old 11-30-2007, 11:45 PM
wisehandpoker wisehandpoker is offline
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Default Re: ***Official 2007-2008 MLB Offseason Thread***

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Reed Johnson is definitely a better fielder, but Lind was good in 2007.

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As much as I wish Lind was good in the field, he isn't.

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Okay, fielding metrics disagree with you, and I am more inclined to believe them than someone who has watched a few games and is probably cherry-picking.

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I think it's pretty much a unanimous consensus here in Toronto, but whatever.
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  #302  
Old 12-01-2007, 12:11 AM
MikeyPatriot MikeyPatriot is offline
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Default Re: ***Official 2007-2008 MLB Offseason Thread***

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I think it's pretty much a unanimous consensus here in Toronto, but whatever.

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People in Minnesota probably believe that Torii Hunter is still an elite defensive CF
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  #303  
Old 12-01-2007, 12:23 AM
wisehandpoker wisehandpoker is offline
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Default Re: ***Official 2007-2008 MLB Offseason Thread***

Do you think Torontonians want Lind to suck in the same way Minnesotans want Torii to be good? You're comparing homerism to anti-homerism.
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  #304  
Old 12-01-2007, 12:30 AM
Zutroy Zutroy is offline
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Default Re: ***Official 2007-2008 MLB Offseason Thread***

Fwiw I thought Lind was pretty good in the field last year and I saw a decent amount of Jays games, though it is kinda tough to tell through the T.V. Fielding metrics are iffy, I agree, but I am inclined to believe them in this case.
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  #305  
Old 12-01-2007, 12:32 AM
MikeyPatriot MikeyPatriot is offline
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Default Re: ***Official 2007-2008 MLB Offseason Thread***

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Do you think Torontonians want Lind to suck in the same way Minnesotans want Torii to be good? You're comparing homerism to anti-homerism.

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Cubs fans rode Jacque Jones hard last year too. White Sox fans thought Jose Valentin was awful, even though he had very good range.

The point is...people are generally terrible at correctly assessing defensive talent just based on what they see.
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  #306  
Old 12-01-2007, 12:37 AM
wisehandpoker wisehandpoker is offline
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Default Re: ***Official 2007-2008 MLB Offseason Thread***

are you including scouts? The book on Lind has always included bad defense. I'm not going to change your mind though, I give up.
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  #307  
Old 12-01-2007, 12:39 AM
MikeyPatriot MikeyPatriot is offline
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Default Re: ***Official 2007-2008 MLB Offseason Thread***

No, I'm not, because that wasn't what you said that I took issue with. You said it's a consensus opinion in Toronto that he's not a very good defender. I think it's safe to say you meant the fans in Toronto.

I think there's more merit to what scouts say, but I'm not putting 100% trust in their opinion.
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  #308  
Old 12-01-2007, 01:05 AM
4 High 4 High is offline
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Default Re: ***Official 2007-2008 MLB Offseason Thread***

What in the flying hell was Omar thinking?
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  #309  
Old 12-01-2007, 01:18 AM
camerondiggs camerondiggs is offline
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Default Re: ***Official 2007-2008 MLB Offseason Thread***

dont weigh in here much but the mets trade makes no no no sense to me at all. now have 3 below par catchers and a RF that cant hit. in regards to Omar, to quote Alias, "What is his end game?"
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  #310  
Old 12-01-2007, 01:39 AM
rwperu34 rwperu34 is offline
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Default Re: ***Official 2007-2008 MLB Offseason Thread***

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It is possible to improve defensively, you know. Just because people thought he couldn't hack it doesn't mean he can't, and the only data we have on him shows that Lind is a average or plus fielder, so thinking that he is not a good fielder has pretty much no basis in reality at this point.


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That data point is suspect at best. I think the point is, Lind is all about projection at this point, both hitting and fielding. On his defense, I'd weigh the scouts at about 98% right now and the stats at about 2%. While it's possible he's improved, until I hear about it from baseball insiders or until he's amassed 500 games sample size, I'm going to assume that Lind is not a good fielder.
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