Neteller Update...

[Sniper]

egoldy,

Can you list the questions, that you feel are important at this point, that are not answered by the FAQ?

[egoldy]

Here is the list that the group put together:

1) How many US customers are impacted by this freeze and what's the
total amount being held?
2) I am assuming that the money being held is more than the $50M
seized
by the DOJ. Where is the rest of that money? Is it being used to
support UK customers or set aside for us? It is our understanding
that the money falls into three buckets:

a. Those who had transactions (both deposits and
withdrawals) "pending" on Jan. 16th;

b. Those who attempted transactions after Jan. 16th;

c. Those who have just left funds untouched in their Neteller
accounts since Jan 16th.

It is my understanding that those category a funds that were "in-
transit" either into or out of Americans' Neteller accounts on Jan.
16th are the ones that were "seized" by the DOJ and, as has been
widely reported by the media, amount to approximately $55 million.

WRT those category b transactions that took place after Jan. 16th,
Neteller apparently bowing to pressure by the DOJ
voluntarily "suspended" those transactions. (It is also my
understanding that Neteller still retains some control over
transactions in this category, inasmuch as Neteller senior customer
service reps as recently as Monday claimed that these transactions
could still be manually cancelled on a case-by-case basis by Neteller
if the customer requested it.)

The status of the 3rd category is that Neteller still retains
complete control over these funds and has "frozen" these accounts
from any further activity.

Can you help us understand the status and priority of people who have
money in these three groups?

3) Can you explain the primary issue with sending money back to us?
What is preventing you from distributing the funds back to US
members. Even if ACH and wire transfers are no longer allowed, how
can companies like Bodog and others issue checks and you can't? Can
you not pay us back because the money is tied up or because you
don't have a means to release it.
4) In other words, is your ability to pay us back fully tied to the
government releasing the $55M it has held?
5) If the case is dropped (assuming there is not another continuance),
do you expect the $55M to be released immediately? (this was put together before
6) We saw your post that it takes "time" to put something together,
but
75 days to "devise a plan" seems excessive. Can you provide a better
timeline as to what is being done over the next 75 days? Assuming
the 75 days goes as planned, when do you realistically expect us to
get
our money back? (I think we have a better idea as to what the 75 days involves now - but it has nothing to do with getting our money back -- it has to do with Navigant's "investigation" and Neteller's negotiations into how much info they will turn over
7) Is our money being held in any type of an interest bearing
account? Shouldn't we be getting the value associated with you
holding our money? Again, this goes to where the money is being
held question. (probably not per their T&Cs, but worth asking)
8) Do you expect any type of similar problems to impact customers
outside of the US?
9) What is Neteller's posoition on customers that have dual
citizenship? Can these customers get their money out?
10) Is there anything that you would like our group to do to help?
11) From a privacy perspective, do you expect information on your
customers to be released to the US government or IRS? What information? How far back will it go?
12) Does Neteller have accurate records on the amount on the Neteller
cards. Some of our members have stated that the account
displays "service unavailable". When the member contacted Neteller
on multiple occasions they refused / didn't know how to view the
amount on the card...
12) I would like to see a schedule – ideally a meeting held every few
weeks that would provide updates on progress made during this 75 day
period – ideally with the opportunity for us to provide input to
you. Would you consider such a thing?

----

In the interests of simplifying things, we sent the following message back to Andrew Gilchrist from Neteller -- focusing on the key issues that we want answered..

Mr. Gilchrist,

Our group appreciates your personal response to our open letter and
the latest press release and updated FAQs. However, realizing that
you are restricted from releasing certain information, we would still
like to see someone from Neteller assigned to work with us to
maintain lines of communications. Would you consider organizing a
call with a few people in our group every 2 weeks to provide updates
and quell any major concerns?

In addition, there are a series of questions that we would like to
have Neteller address: The following are the most pressing:

1) Reason for inability to send funds: What is preventing you from
distributing the funds back to US members? Even if ACH and wire
transfers are no longer allowed, how can companies like Bodog and
others issue checks and you can't? Can you not pay us back because
the money is tied up or because you don't have a means to release it?

2) In your FAQs, you state that it takes time to put together the
process to release funds, but 75 days to "devise a plan" seems
excessive. Can you provide a better timeline as to what is being done
over the next 75 days as well as any key milestones? Assuming the 75
days goes as planned, when do you realistically expect us to get our
money back?

3) What information has been given out – or is expected to be given
out – about your customers? Will all historical information on
users/ transaction amounts / addresses / etc. be provided to the DOJ
as part of the settlement to get the $50M released?

Thank you for your willingness to work with us on this matter and we
look forward to a quick resolution.

[Poker CPA]

From the Office of Mr. Gil christ (JC to my friends):

1) Reason for inability to send funds:

Answer: Neteller owes 650 mil (an estimate) to US costomers, as of today. Neteller only has 595 mil to distribute. The shortage is due to the DOJ, which is holding 55 Mil. So since we can't give everyone 100%, we give nothing until the DOJ gives back our funds. We can't discrimnate against any one customer, when the time comes everyone will get the same %. We do this because we can, and you can't do anything about it. We will not be left holding the bag on the 55 mil.

2. Answer: We can't not provide a better timeline, unless you know when the DOJ will release our cash. When we get ours back, you get yours. 75 days gives us some time to come up with a better BS story.

3. Answer: To save our azz, everything is on the table.

And if there is anything else we can help you with please feel free to ask any further questions.

JC

Its our way or the highway.

[Jeff Oneye]

Sniper,

I can't understand why you would tell skeptics to read Neteller's FAQ. Is this a company with a reputation for integrity, veracity, and transparency? There seems to be a chronic disparity between what Neteller says they do and what they actually do. For me, deeds speak louder than words. Neteller changes their story more often than a nurse's aid changes a stinky bed pan. I am taken aback that you would direct somebody to Neteller's FAQ as though it had sufficient credibility.

I've personally given myself permission to stop worrying about what Neteller might or might not do. They have demonstrated a willingness, through their respresentatives or spokepersons, to obscure the truth, make false and misleading statements, treat customers with a dismissive attitude, and act in seemingly direct opposition to customer's and shareholder's interests.

In conclusion, here is just one instance of Neteller's shenanigans: "All US members will continue to be able to use their NETELLER e-wallet account to safely transfer funds to and from non-gambling merchants and are not required to close their account or withdraw their funds."

Jeffrey

[Poker CPA]

Jeff

"act in seemingly direct opposition to customer's and shareholder's interests."

"Seemingly", LOL . I know this is a long-shot but, I'll bet that some of the day-to-day management guys are SHAREHOLDERS. I wonder who they care about, now that the US market is finished. But I think you are over reacting just a bit. I'm sure they think honesty is the best policy. No way are they waiting for offers from US customers to take $.75 on the dollar, and it would be impossible to find a "middleman" to complete the deal. Kinda like the movie "Wall Street", with Michael Douglas.

[frommagio]

[ QUOTE ]
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Yahboohoo posted the letter that went to Neteller above, the following was the direct result of that action including a letter from Neteller to the founder of the group..

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Somehow, I can't quite believe that a semi-grammatical letter written in eighth-grade style caused Neteller to rethink its position. I suppose that I could be wrong.

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If companies start to value their customers based on writing skills then they will be in trouble.

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The world is a tough place, and reality can be harsh sometimes. Like it or not, when a well-dressed individual walks into a room, he automatically receives more respect than his more poorly dressed counterpart. That same concept applies with communications.

People do judge you based on your ability to write. At the very minimum, the basics need to be there: legal grammar, correct spelling, question marks at the end of questions. Many educated people simply have a hard time giving serious consideration to written communications that fall below this basic level.

Is this unfair? Perhaps, but perhaps not. But that doesn't really matter, because reality is what it is.

However, I do see a potential solution. Some of you folks seem to be unwilling to take the grammar issue seriously, whereas others may simply need some help. And smartalecc5 was concerned that "Everyone is sitting on their fat ass waiting for the money while criticizing people ..." (sic). Well, maybe we can all help one another, so as to put our best food forward.

In that spirit, I suggest that the group consider posting drafts of its future communications for review and feedback before sending them. It doesn't need to be a long process; any number of folks here would be happy to give the text a quick once-over, even if only to remove the really embarrassing mistakes.

With this approach, the writing quality won't get in the way of the message. Let's make sure the message receives the respect it deserves.

[NesOne]

I agree, frommagio. I don't really understand the "Well, nobody is paying us" bit. One would think that any intelligent person would be embarrassed to submit their name with such an ill-devised piece, regardless of the compensation (or lack of) that they received. If the "press release" had been much worse, I would have thought it was a parody.

[egoldy]

LOL, you two guys have got to be kidding me... Although I should just ignore this type of non-productive comment, I stupidly feel a need to respond.

As "bad as that press release was written", it was put up on almost every major gambling site -- as is.. It was translated and reposted on sites internationally. It has driven additional awareness both inside and outside the gambling world and resulted in a series of other articles -- some about the group, some about the problem itself. If you don't believe it, google the group's name or go to the site and go to the link's page. Not "bragging", just stating that the goal was not "compensation" but awareness about OUR problem, and I think that was accomplished - regardless of how "poorly" it was written.

And the "pathetically written letter" you refer to resulted in direct communication from their VP of Corporate Communications and has opened the door for future action.

I will absolutely guarantee that it drove more action than a post about embarassed we should be for submitting such a poorly written piece..

You discuss these letters/releases as if it was written by a third grader with misspellings, acronyms, and without any type of focus. Do me a favor - please go through the press release and show all the things that you're referring to.. I am really curious.. Perhaps a comma or question mark was missing, but I thought it read fairly well for something that was put together very quickly by a few people who do not write press releases for a living. Messages can always be more effective, but there is a difference between an "F" paper and a "B" paper -- and these "B" papers got the job done.

There was earlier drafts of some of the letters posted on the site and some posted comments back, some ignored it... In the interests of time, we sent the release and the letter out.

If you want to be useful, go to the site and write something that will drive action or provide comments on the drafts that do get posted... Or submit something directly to the moderator's e-mail address that we could use. Or give us money so that we can hire a professional writer.

BTW, NesOne, you're supposed to put two spaces after a period, not one. (see above between the second to last and last sentence of your post). Aren't you embarassed about posting that message? It would have been much more effective if you used proper spacing..... Sounds stupid, eh? I agree..


Sorry for the venting - it's honestly not productive either -- just makes me feel better.. But while this site has great poker info, this thread seems to thrive on non-productive rants instead of what could be done to ensure we get our money back.

[NesOne]

Sorry for annoying you sir, I've actually never read the press release. I was just amused by all the rantings its received about having poor grammar and such. So I decided to add a comment as well for fun. I can delete if you would like.

[egoldy]

Now that I've got that out of my system...

The group has and will continue to happily take the support and input from people who have unique expertise -- be it english, legal, press, whatever..

I followed this forum because I like this site, but I feel it's kind of wasting my time too discuss this topic here.

Feel free to post your thoughts and suggestions and improvements. Mindless bashing is pointless..