Another Stupid Peace Initiative for Israel/Arabs

[Goater]

no offense, but you seem to to have a very limited and naive view of the issues.


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I can tell you, as a jew, i grew up being taught to hate arabs.

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Do you mind me asking where you grew up and who "taught" you to hate arabs? Were you told blatant lies, that all arabs are bad, that you should kill them? Im genuinely curious. There is a big difference between prejudice and what is being taught to Palestinian children. You cant blame Israelis for not liking arabs, they have been attacked and murdered by them for many years, but there is a huge difference in wanting to murder every last one. Palestinians are educated to believe - literally - that Jews are animals and intrinsically evil AND at the same time, schooled in violence and brutality. It is this dual approach that makes murder inevitable and its one big difference as to why other people with prejudices do not end up blowing themselves up in pizza shops amongst the group they dont like. Whilst distasteful, jokes between friends do not lead to the sorts of things the Palestinians have been doing.


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where do you think that comes from?

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I have no idea. This is not my experience (and not the experience of my family and friends in Israel). Your answers to my questions above should help me understand.


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why do you think Rabin was assassinated just for being sympathetic the Palestinian cause?

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You are grossly over simplifying this. He was murdered by a lunatic who represented a tiny percentage of the population. Rabin was also not in any way "sympathetic" to the Palestinian cause. He basically believed that it was for the security of Israel to be at peace with the Palestinians - he didnt care at all about the Palestinians. Rabin was supported by a majority of the population and the vast majority of those that opposed him would never have considered anything but democratic means to stop his plans. The number of people who would have supported his assasination was miniscule but, unfortunately, to be expected - there are insane people in every country. We are not talking of a few families teaching their children to murder - we are talking about official (goverment controlled) media and religius figures.


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did you see how jews reacted when they gave back some of gaza too?

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Can you really be that flippant about the withdrawal from Gaza!? Do you really not understand how excruciatingly painful and divisive this was for the country? Families had been encouraged to live there by Labour and Likud governments since 1967. They believed they were doing their duty (some religious, some national, some both) to settle the land. Grandparents, parents and children were buried on that land where they had lived and worked for 40 years. Even for supporters of the withdrawal in Israel, it was an incredibly difficult event. How would you react exactly?


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like i said, many of hte jews did their bidding through the likud to impose their crazy religious beliefs this is just seemingly more legitimized.

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"bidding"? You speak like supporters of the likud party are mysterious evil masterminds! You sound exactly like someone who has uncritically listened to the propaganda. Also, religious beliefs are only a part of it - have you never heard of secular zionists - have you ever been to Israel?


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three of my cousins serve in the Israeli military and all have very biased views on the issue and have a feeling that we just must be horrible to Arabs. the hatred very much exists on the Jewish side.

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I never said that hatred dosnt exist on the Israeli side - of course it does. But your idea that Israel is run by religious madmen who see the murder of arabs as a righteous obligation is simply ignorant. Your 3 cousins are irrelevant - we are talking about a nation. You say that they believe that they should be "horrible" to arabs. Did they advocate the murder of innocent arabs? Have they done, seen or been encouraged to do this? Or do they just mean that the measures that Israel must take to defend its civilians are unpleasant but necessary, in their opinion?

They are also Israeli, therefore you cant really use the word "biased" to describe their views. They are not observers from the outside. Im sure that they dont like arabs. Most people wouldnt if they lived through the intifada when over a thousand civilians were murdered inside Israel, week by week and they had to join the army for 3 years at the age of 18 instead of going to clubs, meeting girls and travelling the world.

I apologise if my tone is harsh, but by the things you write, it seems that you really have a very superficial and naive view of the situation.

[SNOWBALL]

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Palestinians are educated to believe - literally - that Jews are animals and intrinsically evil AND at the same time, schooled in violence and brutality.

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how can you even claim to know this is true?

[canis582]

Felix, why don't we kill/relocate jews instead? Whats the difference between the two groups?

[dazraf69]

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Felix, why don't we kill/relocate jews instead? Whats the difference between the two groups?

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If this was a thread discussing the genocide of any other mainstream culture other than Middle East culture, the thread would have been locked. I am disappointed to see that mods have taken no action against the many racist and down right attacks against the Arab culture that has continued in this thread. It is disgusting to see something as complex as the Palestinian/Israeli conflict be broken down to "kill all the Arabs and let the Jews rejoice". So shameful! [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[ConstantineX]

MidGe level?

[DblBarrelJ]

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MidGe level?

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[x] You're all racist hicks!!!!

[Felix_Nietzsche]

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am disappointed to see that mods have taken no action against the many racist and down right attacks against the Arab culture that has continued in this thread.

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A racist is one who is biased against people because of their race.
I have no problem with Arab christians so therefore I can not be racist towards Arabs. I am biased against Islam but since muslims consist of all races on the planet, being biased against Islam is not racist. If you like, you can call me a culturist. Because I don't believe all cultures are equal....

My beliefs can be stated as:
Arab + Islam = Biased
Arab + Christian (or atheist) = Respect
Pakistani + Islam = Bias
Pakistani + Christian (or atheist) = Respect (although they would get the death penalty for being a christian)

There is nothing wrong being biased against a belief system that wants to kill me and other infidels. You expressed the wish that I be censored by the mods.... Muslims have this belief syatem as well. Perhaps you have more in common with Islam than you think.

I have no desire to censor you.... This is the difference between you and I. I'm more tolerant than you...

[Goater]

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It is disgusting to see something as complex as the Palestinian/Israeli conflict be broken down to "kill all the Arabs and let the Jews rejoice". So shameful!

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I do basically agree with this. As many of you know, I am pro Israel and what you would term "right wing". However, I do not like to see even 1 innocent arab killed or the entire arab race disrespected. The only arabs I hate are the ones that wish to kill me and my family - I have no problem whatsoever with any arab who disagrees with me or hates Israel, as long as he dosnt advocate the murder of innocent Israeli civilians.

I do not think that it is helpful when either side talk about the issues in this manner. If someone believes that a solution to the conflict would be to remove all arabs from israel (or all jews), for example, i think its fair enough that this be discussed as long as arguaments are put forward. However, "kill all arab" type statements have no place in a reasonable discussion.

[Subfallen]

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Felix, why don't we kill/relocate jews instead? Whats the difference between the two groups?

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Jews are ~0.2% of the world population and have been awarded ~25% of all Nobel Prizes.

Muslims are ~25% of the world population and have been awarded ~1% of all Nobel Prizes.

Which of these groups would you prefer to prosper and which would you prefer to evaporate by, say, yesterday?

[owsley]

When did Nobel Prizes start getting awarded? Do you realize how many contributions to science, mathematics and astronomy, anything, the muslim world has made over history?