400nl: line check

[cowboy billy]

ok, HH's on Ipoker get stored in a weird format, so I typed it out myself

400nl 6 players, effective stacks: $400

folded to button, 17/12/2 over 400 hands

btn raises to 14
sb folds
hero reraises to 35 with TT
villain calls

flop: 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
hero leads for 55
villain calls
pot:180

turn: 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

I thought this might be a good opportunity to check and try to induce a bet from villain (with the intention to call and lead river) if he either has a small pp or if he was floating me

hero checks
villain checks
pot: 180

river: 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

hero bets 90

how's my river bet size and do you like the turn check?

notes on villain:
- called an UTG raise otb with KTs and called 2 pot sized bets on a fd, betted pot when it hit on the river and got paid of by UTG who flopped top set
- called a 3-bet otb from a tight sb with 45s

[JrJordan]

Lower PP isn't going to bet this turn, he's going for a cheap showdown and you miss a round of value especially vs. 66/88/99. I'm making it 110 on the turn with the intent of pushing most rag rivers.

[Mat]

His nit's HR got you crushed, c/c river.

[thac]

I'd make it 48 preflop, your raise is too small.

Flop is good, turn I'd bet about 110 to get value from a smaller pair (maybe counterfeited 55 as well).. he's never betting this turn with a small pair.

River I'd definitely make it more as played, you have the effective nuts, and he's probably not folding a fh, I'd bet 130 or 140.

[cowboy billy]

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Lower PP isn't going to bet this turn, he's going for a cheap showdown and you miss a round of value especially vs. 66/88/99.

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[ QUOTE ]
he's never betting this turn with a small pair.

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<font color="red"> Is this the general concensus? Wouldn't you want to bet a small pp in villain's shoes here to either pick up the pot or try for a free showdown? As villain this would also help to ofset the times you'd be floating and betting the turn with nothing, or am I missing something here? </font>

[ QUOTE ]
I'd make it 48 preflop, your raise is too small.

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35 seems to be standard over there, but you're right about raising more pre, I should change that

[ QUOTE ]
His nit's HR got you crushed, c/c river.

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wouldn't bet/fold be better?

[ QUOTE ]
River I'd definitely make it more as played, you have the effective nuts, and he's probably not folding a fh, I'd bet 130 or 140.

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I think you're right, I'd have to start putting more in on bluffs as well though to not make it obvious

[JrJordan]

A small PP doesn't want to "pick up the pot" here because its a clear WA/WB situation. All worse hands fold and better hands call, and since villain usually has overs when behind his equity is only about 15% and that's not enough to try to protect with any reasonable bet. Instead, he can check through and hope to induce a bluff on the river for the same cost but with much higher equity.

[thac]

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I think you're right, I'd have to start putting more in on bluffs as well though to not make it obvious

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I'd rather put in ~40 more on a bluff to get paid off looked up lightly on rivers like these.

[cowboy billy]

[ QUOTE ]
A small PP doesn't want to "pick up the pot" here because its a clear WA/WB situation. All worse hands fold and better hands call, and since villain usually has overs when behind his equity is only about 15% and that's not enough to try to protect with any reasonable bet. Instead, he can check through and hope to induce a bluff on the river for the same cost but with much higher equity.

[/ QUOTE ]
cool, that's how I'd play a small pp IP in a limit game, I guess no limit aint all that different

<font color="red"> could other posters include if they agree with this point plz? it's a situation I find myself often in
</font>
but when we look at it from hero's perspective again, wouldn't you think that leading the turn would fold out most small pp's, whereas checking turn and betting river would give us at least 1 more street of value?

I had been playing kinda tight myself as well and I didn't think I would get called by a worse hand if I fired turn again, but most likely would get called for a single river bet

[JrJordan]

Board is dry enough that nearly all PP's are autocalling the turn in the hopes you're pulling a double barrel. Even if he decides to fold to a final river push, you guarantee a turn call. Checking through the turn lets a lot of scare cards hit that could convince him to fold to a river bet.

[fringsrache]

hm... lets say u r villain in this hand and u have 88 or 99 ... are u really checking behind here? against straight forward villains i will bet this turn with 88,99 most of the time, and cb if villain is tricky. is that a really a bad play?