Kurt Angle to sign with UFC?

[Mr. Orange]

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From a wrestling (and TNA) fan perspective, this is quite concerning as well. I don't hardly see how this will be helpful to TNA or Angle's standing with the company in the least bit. Can TNA not mention the fact that their biggest star is going to participate in a "real" fight in a UFC ring(thus implicitly admitting that their matches AREN'T real)?

And I have to agree with slickpoppa here, I don't see Angle being able to compete at the highest level in UFC. What happens to TNA when Angle goes up against a UFC star and gets destroyed? I don't see this scenario being positive for anyone with the exception (as poppa stated) of the UFC owners and Angle himself (only from a immediate financial aspect).

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This pretty much sums up my feelings on this.

[LesJ]

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Can TNA not mention the fact that their biggest star is going to participate in a "real" fight in a UFC ring(thus implicitly admitting that their matches AREN'T real)?


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I don't follow wrtestling at all, but is this really an issue? Doesn't everyone except for 5 year olds know that wrestling is fake, but they enjoy it anyway because of the characters and stroylines???

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I believe that most intelligent wrestling fans understand that the outcomes are pre-determined. However, I just combined "intelligent" and "wrestling-fan" in the same sentence. I don't mean to arbitrarily disparage wrestling fans. I play poker for a living and make money off idiots every day. Intellectually-challenged individuals are literally everywhere.

The group of people that frequent this message board and other wrestling-related message boards on the internet are very bright, articulate and knowledgeable about the inner working of the wrestling business. I have to believe, however, that they are still the vast minority. The ignorant masses are still mostly that. . . ignorant.

Les

[danvh]

Given all his neck problems this seems like a horrible idea. One submission or move gone wrong and it seems like something real bad could happen.

If he does fight though, maybe a fight against Mark Coleman or Couture?? They are both older, still pretty good names and have solid wrestling backgrounds..

[SNOWBALL]

In the long term, the UFC needs to start paying a lot of it's fighters more money, and not just the top 2 in each division. If there's more money getting paid out to skilled fighters, then more people will be motivated to join the sport, instead of playing basketball, or soccer, or football, etc. More talent in the sport is going to mean much better fights.

I for one am confident that MMA will evolve a lot in the next 10 years. It might evolve for the worse though, with gimmicky celebrity fights, or an excess of trash talking, or more silly limitations on how much time can be spent on the ground.

It's possible that in the short term, Kurt Angle could give the UFC a nice boost in it's viewership without degrading the quality of the organization and the sport. Maybe the wrestling fans will pay to see angle, and then stay for cro-cop, rampage, and anderson silva. I'm not too optimistic though.

[4thstreetpete]

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From a wrestling (and TNA) fan perspective, this is quite concerning as well. I don't hardly see how this will be helpful to TNA or Angle's standing with the company in the least bit. Can TNA not mention the fact that their biggest star is going to participate in a "real" fight in a UFC ring(thus implicitly admitting that their matches AREN'T real)?

And I have to agree with slickpoppa here, I don't see Angle being able to compete at the highest level in UFC. What happens to TNA when Angle goes up against a UFC star and gets destroyed? I don't see this scenario being positive for anyone with the exception (as poppa stated) of the UFC owners and Angle himself (only from a immediate financial aspect).

Les

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This I disagree. I've been a TNA fan since the beginning when they were doing weekly PPVs and I was a much bigger fan of TNA than WWE. The last few months of TNA however has been nothing but bullcrap and I've since stopped watching it. They are consistently doing a 1.0 in the ratings and is dropping as we speak. Last week when they went head to head with WWE on Thursday they did a 0.47. Now tell me even if Angle gets exposed in UFC how much more worse than TNA going to get? Are they going to drop another whopping 0.2 in the ratings? I don't buy this argument.

Kurt Angle has established himself and even most fans would deep down inside agree that he'll get punished against a top fighter in UFC, even casual fans. I really don't think this will hurt Angle's drawing star power in wrestling as he's that established. Now if it was someone like Samoa Joe gettig exposed in UFC, yeah I can how this can hurt TNA and Samoa Joe. Think of it this way, if Rick Flair decides to step into the Octagon tomorrow against Mirko Crocop and gets destroyed in 10 seconds, do you think he'll still be over with wrestling fans? Absolutely, Rick Flair is an icon and so is Angle. I'm not buying this will hurt TNA. Their ratings are already in the toilet as it is.

TNA is nowhere in the level of UFC right now and exposure would help TNA. Despite what happens, Angle will be a star in UFC, I can see this helping TNA as they can claim they have one of the biggest crossover stars in their company. To me it's a good marriage as both companies TNA and UFC will never be able to repay Spike TV for what they have done for the companies. Some cross promotion between these two would do wonders for TNA.

[4thstreetpete]

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Kurt Angle is a name everyone, or almost everyone, knows.
There are a [censored] ton of wrestling fans who don't watch MMA. You bring one of their guys into the mix to see if they can really fight, you have a huge PPV. This gets bigger endorsements. It gets more money meaning more fighters meaning more names and a wider audience. The only thing Kurt Angle is going to do for MMA is help it go more mainstream and become more of a success.

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First of all, let me clarify that I'm not disputing Angle's ability to draw a big audience and generate money.

What I'm saying is that more money and more fans are not necessarily good for the sport if the fans are being attracted for the wrong reasons (at least from my perspective). If the money is being generated because fans want to see famous names participate in gimmick fights, then that's a loss in my opinion. Sure, some fighters might get rich beating up guys like Angle, but more serious fans will lose out because fights like Fedor v. Cro Cop II and Liddell v. Silva would be pushed to the back-burner.

Instead of Cro Cop v. Kurt Angle, imagine if Chuck Liddell fought Wanderlei Silva in Madison Square Garden on network TV. That will probably never happen for many reasons, but that is my idea of mainstream exposure that I think would be healthy because new fans would get to see two of the greatest fighters ever going at it, rather than a great fighter beating up a famous name.

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Slick, I understand your concerns as I'm an MMA fan as well. You have to remember though, Angle only wants a 3 fight deal. It's not like he's going to step in and take someone's spot within the company. Chuck vs Wanderlei Silva may be your idea of mainstream but that is nowhere close to mainstream to the general public. No one outside of MMA fans knows who Silva is and will have no where close to the interest that Angle would bring.

This is also not going to be the sideshow that you might think this is as well. It's not like they are bringing in Dennis Rodman to fight Crocop as a side show spectacle. Angle has been competing his whole life and is very knowledgable about MMA. He is a legit amateur wrestler and fighter. This won't be Eddie Sanchez vs Mirko Crocop. For a 3 fight deal I can't see the problems with it. If anything, UFC has always tried to market itself as a legitimate trying to get mainstream coverage on ESPN etc. If there's one thing you don't have to worry about is UFC going that route of the side show spectacle. Heck, even the UFC entrances are very sportlike than Pride's spectacle. On a side note, I very much prefer Pride's grander presentation but I do understand why UFC don't want to emulate it. I really don't think you'll have much to worry about UFC.

This will make UFC lots of money and they can only bring in better fighters. It's not like Fedor is going to come to UFC anytime real soon anyways.
As a wrestling fan, I would love to see UFC go to new heights. The last several years of pro wrestling have been terrible once WCW left the industry and the WWE has zero competion. UFC has exploded and now WWE has taken notice of UFC. It is also no surprise that WWE programming of late has been a lot better and more 'realistic'. Competition is really a good thing.

[ohgeetee]

Kurt Angle would take a lot of training to give even C level MMA fighters a decent fight. He would also have to be completely clean to fight in the UFC. I think signing angle to get owned might bring in a lot of wrestling fans, but Dana would lose the respect of a lot of fans that were ready to discount the UFC, but now see hope in it as he pulls in actual talent. I'm not sure what the dollar amount of this respect is, or if he gives a crap, but its definitely a different tune now than it was 2 years ago.

If I recall, wrestling PPV have been overcome by UFC quite awhile back. wrestling has more non PPV viewers by a longshot, but thats all coming around as well. I don't have a link on this, but I'll search for source.

edit: source - http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/...0&zoneid=3

looks like MMA is knocking ont he door of Boxing too.

[LesJ]

Pete,

You make some very sound points. I hope you are right about the possible benefits of this potential relationship.

Les

[4thstreetpete]

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Pete,

You make some very sound points. I hope you are right about the possible benefits of this potential relationship.

Les

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I hope so too. Deep down inside as wrestling fans we really need TNA to succeed. We really do. Wrestling needs competition and for that to happen TNA needs to grow as a company. They've been trying to do everything they can to bring in more casual fans. Much of my dismay with TNA has been the Russo booking. There's no wrestling in the shows anymore and nothing but silly skits that are unfunny. This was much different than several months ago when TNA was absolutely spectacular. This is what's irratitating me the most about TNA, I want them to succeed so badly but they are not bringing in new fans and turning away some of their most loyal fans as evident in their ratings.

Also it's not like Angle is going to step into the UFC and be totally green about the business. Guys like Josh Koscheck in the UFC who has a very solid amateur wrestling background is doing very well in the UFC. I'm not comparing Angle to Koshcheck but his amateur background would be at the very least on par or better than Koshcheck. Angle also said during the interview that he'll be training with Randy Couture to get ready before he steps into the UFC. This won't be a wash and it's definately no Bart Gunn trying to do shoot fighting. It won't be a complete mismatch to say the least.