Virginia apologizes for slavery... why?

[ArtMonkRules]

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You're one sick bastard. You do realize that millions and millions of people were brutally held in servitude, killed, beaten, raped, humiliated, etc., for two hundred years, right? If you just decided that, overall, slavery had had a positive impact, that would be pretty sick. But you're actually claiming there's nothing to express regret for? That's disgusting.

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Um no..... I don't have to express regret or apologize for slavery, because I didn't have anything to do with it... and neither did my elected representatives.... And to make the argument that something good can't come from an evil act, or that an evil institution once abolished can't lead to positive results of such a magnitude that they far exceed the evil that precipitated them is absurd.

[AzDesertRat]

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To express regret of slavery this many years later is rediculous. It would be more appropriate to express regret of more recent racist policies that some of them may actually have contributed to.

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I agree completely--slave owners and their immediate relatives are all deceased. The reminiscences of slavery remain to this day and that's what the apology should be about.

If someone agrees to reparations, I am leaving this country (or at least the state that this actually takes place).

[Angeleyes]

Yes, and if reparations ever happen, I will petition the Italian government for some, I'm sure the Romans enslaved some of my ancestors.

[ShakeZula06]

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to make the argument that something good can't come from an evil act, or that an evil institution once abolished can't lead to positive results of such a magnitude that they far exceed the evil that precipitated them is absurd.


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He's not saying that. He's saying that you basically claiming that slavery has been +EV for black people is a ridiculous, ignorant, disgusting, and perhaps most importantly a false statement.

[ShakeZula06]

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I agree completely--slave owners and their immediate relatives are all deceased.

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This is true, but there certainly are families today that are better off because of slavery practised by their ancestors, no? And certainly there are black people who are worse off because they're families were enslaved for generations, no?

Don't get me wrong, I'm definitely against government mandated or government paid reparations, but if someone was born into a wealthy family that was wealthy because of slavery and wants to help correect that wrong by giving some money to an African-American cause, what's the beef?

[AzDesertRat]

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I agree completely--slave owners and their immediate relatives are all deceased.

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This is true, but there certainly are families today that are better off because of slavery practised by their ancestors, no? And certainly there are black people who are worse off because they're families were enslaved for generations, no?

Don't get me wrong, I'm definitely against government mandated or government paid reparations, but if someone was born into a wealthy family that was wealthy because of slavery and wants to help correect that wrong by giving some money to an African-American cause, what's the beef?

[/ QUOTE ]

How far back in history are you will to take this point? Are there Spanish that are better off after basically destroying flourishing civilizations in Central and South America? Are there 'regular' not slave holding Americans who are better off because they stole land from the Native Americans? Are there Greeks (or Spartans) that are better off because they defeated Xerxes?

I understand your point, but you cannot hold people captive for what their relatives have done in the past, especially if the wrongdoers (silly word) are long since deceased. In theory, the former Confederate States can blame the former Union states on how bad the Reconstruction was after the Civil war and pursue their own actions (and there were Northerners that profited from this). When does this end?

Let's correct the problems we have at hand now and move on. History is history--we can heed the lessons of it, but we can't do anything to change it.

[AlexM]

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There was never Asian slavery, yet Asian people have found their way over to the U.S..

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There were slaves of ALL races, including white. The black slaves were simply a lot easier to get and therefore overwhelmingly more common. Raiding say England or China for slaves was a tad more difficult than getting one African tribe to raid another and sell to you.

[bobman0330]

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You're one sick bastard. You do realize that millions and millions of people were brutally held in servitude, killed, beaten, raped, humiliated, etc., for two hundred years, right? If you just decided that, overall, slavery had had a positive impact, that would be pretty sick. But you're actually claiming there's nothing to express regret for? That's disgusting.

[/ QUOTE ]

Um no..... I don't have to express regret or apologize for slavery, because I didn't have anything to do with it... and neither did my elected representatives.... And to make the argument that something good can't come from an evil act, or that an evil institution once abolished can't lead to positive results of such a magnitude that they far exceed the evil that precipitated them is absurd.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good for you. I don't feel personally guilty or responsible for slavery either. That's not what I objected to in your post. The disgusting thing you said was "Shouldn't we be appreciating [slavery] for all the wonderful things its done for our country, and for the Africans that were brought here?"

First of all, the assertion that the world is better with slavery than without it is pretty ridiculous. Sure, millions of slaves were brutalized for their entire lives, etc., but hey, we have jazz! Riiight... Second, even if that assertion is true, that doesn't make slavery any less evil.

And even if you are blameless, the state of Virginia certainly is not. Besides being at the forefront of promoting the institution of slavery while it existed, it also, within living memory, promoted racist policies designed to perpetuate the inferior economic status of ex-slaves. And to make it even more reasonable, they're not even apologizing, they're expressing regret.

[ShakeZula06]

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How far back in history are you will to take this point? Are there Spanish that are better off after basically destroying flourishing civilizations in Central and South America? Are there 'regular' not slave holding Americans who are better off because they stole land from the Native Americans? Are there Greeks (or Spartans) that are better off because they defeated Xerxes?


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It's all a matter of degree. All of the examples are apt, it's just that the farther back in goes the less impact it would have (and with some it is very very very miniscule but in theory there is an impact).
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but you cannot hold people captive for what their relatives have done in the past,

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That's why I'm not advocating holding anyone captive for it. However to say that some haven't benefitted from wrong actions of their relatives to the detriment of others is incorrect, and I'd understand if someone wanted to try to make up for those wrongs.
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In theory, the former Confederate States can blame the former Union states on how bad the Reconstruction was after the Civil war and pursue their own actions (and there were Northerners that profited from this).

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You'd be correct.
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Let's correct the problems we have at hand now and move on. History is history--we can heed the lessons of it, but we can't do anything to change it.

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You're right, we can't change it, but I just don't see what's wrong with someone giving to others to help another's bad situation.

[aheravi]

I'm waiting for your followup argument that the Holocaust helped resolve population issues in Europe, thus benefitting numerous countries.