Really, honestly, how can you believe that old book???

[einbert]

The child mind is extremely malleable. Tell a child from a very young age that if he doesn't worship Jesus, he's going to BURN for eternity, and the result is simple. The vast majority of the time you get an adult who worships Jesus and "believes" the Bible wholeheartedly. Most of them never take the time to really question it, because if you think about it what practical value could actually come from that? If they question it and they're wrong they go to hell. If they question it and they're right they get no value out of it other than the satisfaction of knowing the truth. Don't forget that questioning the Bible is really held on par with blasphemy in the Christian church. Blasphemy is pretty important, as to some it's the only unforgivable sin (Matt. 12:31).

I think there are really good reasons for all these established structures within the religion. If Christianity were set up in a different way, it never would have lasted for almost two thousand years and been so widespread among the world population.

Let's just be thankful that the United States is overrun with people who generally just pray for the armageddon. It's a good thing they don't actually believe the rules of the Bible, because if they did the government would still be killing homosexuals because they are "an abomination unto the LORD", killing apostates for blasphemy, killing people for picking up sticks on the sabbath (Numbers 15:32-36) and who knows what else.

[Mempho]

The problem if you don't believe is simply that The Bible is written in such a way that there is always an out. It might help you to notice a few well-known points:

1) Lucifer was smart
2) Lucifer thought he had it all figured out
3) Lucifer "fell" for this
4) The message is: don't think you've got it all figured out (evolution debate, anyone)
5) There is always and, I mean, always a conspiracy
6) It's not paranoia because they're really out to get you
7) The Egyptian rulers conspired against the Israelites
8) The Pharisees conspired against the Christians
9) The Romans conspired against the Christians
10) The end of time is one gigantic conspiracy:
-One world government
-Antichrist
-War in the Middle East
-Anything that makes Christianity out to be a lie
is a just a lie waiting to be revealed

11) So, you see, from their perspective, it is all coming true (because the opposing evidence is a lie)

You come from the perspective of reason, so you desire evidence prior to buying into it. None of the other stuff is of significance to you. They come from a perspective of faith and always go from that prism.

When a Christian hears about evolution, they usually will go with one of the following choices:

1) God said it was different and I'm going to believe what God said despite any scientific evidence
2) The scientists are wrong.
3) It's an outright conspiracy against Christians and a lie
4) Evolution is possibly congruent with Creationism. After all, God has explained that he is timeless in many different ways "A day is as 1,000 years and 1,000 years is as a day"
5) I'm not sure about evolution, so I'll leave the topic alone
6) Evolution is true, Genesis 1 is allegorical
7) Evolution is true, Creationism is false, therefore I must reject the faith.

Just wanted to let you know what you're fighting. I should know. I've considered points 2-7 on the evolution debate.

[Subfallen]

[ QUOTE ]
Subfallen,
Why do you think I am an example of an evangelical Christian? Please be specific. An example of a post I made would be nice.

I also have no idea who Josh McDowell is.

Please feel free to ignore this post once you realize you are stupid. If you do decide to reply, you may accuse me and everyone who doesn't agree with your specific worldview of being intellectually dishonest. This is okay, because I find irony from pompous retards to be very funny.

[/ QUOTE ]

A. You are obviously a personal-God-theist who tries to be intellectual about it---99% of these gems are EC's. If you're not, well pardon me.

B. I don't have any specific "worldview" (a painfully stupid word).

C. If you would care to resume any of our previous arguments that you stopped responding to (presumably once you realized you were being stupid), I'd be delighted to continue demolishing your silly assorted idealisms. Otherwise, go [censored] yourself.

Edit - Josh McDowell is just one example who has been mentioned many times on this board. Substitute your favorite apologist...Norman Geisler, Lee Strobel, William Lane Craig, heck...C.S. Lewis, G.K. Chesterton...I mean, who cares, Kant?

At any rate, it is undeniable that a HUGE segment of the EC population qualifies as clinically delusional regarding religion. I never said they all do.

[diddyeinstein]

[ QUOTE ]
You would think that things like a world-covering flood

[/ QUOTE ]

Now I understand that you can hold other religious texts up to the same critical treatment as you do the Bible, but am I incorrect in my thinking that the story of the flood is an element in several diffent religions.

I vaguely remember a story from ancient Greek or Roman mythology that described a flood similar to that of the Bible. Additionally, I thought it was also a story in at least one of the Eastern religions. Is this incorrect?

I'm not trying to prove the Bible, but I would think with different sources discussing a similar theme, along with our knowledge of geological data that it is likely that there was a world-wide flood at some point in the Earth's past. Of course I could be wrong, and I'm sure you will inform me if I am. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

[Edukashun]

There is an old Babylonian story of the flood.
Not that this makes the bible historical correct. In fact far from it, it could just mean they borrowed from their neighbour's mythology ( Edit: meaning the Isrealites).

[jogsxyz]

[ QUOTE ]
What corroborating evidence is there?? The BEST evidence I've heard is always shaky at best. You would think that things like a world-covering flood and ten plagues would have managed to be recorded by somebody or left physical evidence somewhere....

[/ QUOTE ]

The History Channel did show evidence of the much of the known world flooded. After embellishments it became the entire world.

[Mempho]

[ QUOTE ]


What corroborating evidence is there?? The BEST evidence I've heard is always shaky at best. You would think that things like a world-covering flood and ten plagues would have managed to be recorded by somebody or left physical evidence somewhere.

[/ QUOTE ]

The plagues of Exodus are the amongst the easiest things to show as possible in the Bible.

Plague 1 (occurred in the 1990s on the Neuse River in NC)

[ QUOTE ]
Pfiesteria piscicida is a dinoflagellate that some researchers claim is responsible for many blooms in the 1980s and 1990s on the coast of North Carolina. Pfiesteria is named after Lois Ann Pfiester (1936–1992), who researched dinoflagellates, and its species name means "fish-killer." The organism was discovered by JoAnn Burkholder at North Carolina State University. An in-depth story of her and her discovery can be found in And the Waters Turned to Blood by Rodney Barker.

[/ QUOTE ]



Blood in the Water

From here, plagues 2-6 are just cause and effect. Plague 7 is hail and plagues 8-10 are connected to plagues 1-6.

It's a puzzle and no, you can't use Hort's work to fill it out (although he pioneered the concept).

Plague 1's answer is given....the water's red and the fish are dead. Have fun.

[TimM]

Why did we shift from trying to find evidence that events in the bible actually happened to simply trying to show that they were merely possible?

[MaxWeiss]

[ QUOTE ]
Why did we shift from trying to find evidence that events in the bible actually happened to simply trying to show that they were merely possible?

[/ QUOTE ]

[Mempho]

[ QUOTE ]
Why did we shift from trying to find evidence that events in the bible actually happened to simply trying to show that they were merely possible?

[/ QUOTE ]

What? The question is: how can you honestly believe it. The implication is that it is as unbelievable as a common fairy tale.