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#21
06-27-2007, 12:25 PM
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Re: \"I Check / Raise In the Dark.\" Is the Raise Binding?
What is the guy gonna do if the other player checks behind? Does he now have to bet?
"I check/raise in the dark" doesn't even make sense so I can only read it as noise. I'm not even sure if checking in the dark is binding. 
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#22
06-27-2007, 12:41 PM
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Re: \"I Check / Raise In the Dark.\" Is the Raise Binding?
You can not act twice in one turn - period.
He checked and now must wait for the other player to act. I want to comment on MGM - I believe they have the best floor staff in LV today. I have has similar experiences at MGM where floor not only gives a rule to a hypothetical, but is gracious enough to explain why. Out of turn verbal - I say only if you are next to act and only if the action is valid. Although - the 'if you bet I go all-in move' is one I would love to punish if I were a floorman.
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#23
06-27-2007, 12:46 PM
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Re: \"I Check / Raise In the Dark.\" Is the Raise Binding?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] How many times has a player said in first position, "if you bet, I'm all-in". And then after a bet he folds. No way an out of turn verbal declaration is binding. [/ QUOTE ] Funny this is mentioned, I came in here to post about an incident at the showboat a few months ago. 1/2 table next to me erupts in arguments over this exact thing. After 10 minutes one of the players comes to play at our table and tells us the story. The action is on the river and an older guy checks to the agressor of the whole hand. While the guy is counting chips to make a bet the guy says to him "I know you're bluffing, i'll call any bet you throw out there" The player asked if the move was binding and when it was he went all in and the guy flips out saying it wasnt binding at all. Eventually the floor decided that it WAS a verbal move and he lost all his chips. [/ QUOTE ] This is very different then saying "check and raise" or "check and call" or "check with the intention of raising." In the story above, player 1 checked and with the knowledge that player 2 is considering a bet, tells him that he will call any bet. I am still not sure I agree with the ruling (seems like coffeehousing to me), but timing is everything...
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#24
06-27-2007, 12:54 PM
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Re: \"I Check / Raise In the Dark.\" Is the Raise Binding?
I do not think it is WRONG to make the scumbag who says 'check and call if you bet' put in his chips, but it is bad practice.
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#25
06-27-2007, 12:55 PM
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Re: \"I Check / Raise In the Dark.\" Is the Raise Binding?
[ QUOTE ]
Eventually the floor decided that it WAS a verbal move and he lost all his chips. [/ QUOTE ] Because he was next to act and it could easily be an angleshot to get a free showdown. If you are next to act and say something like this, it should be binding. Check raise in the dark isn't binding because they aren't next to act. They check and then someone else has the action. In this situation the old guy was next to act and he is obligated to call. TMTTR, sorry if I got your letters wrong, is exactly right, the timing is very important.
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#26
06-27-2007, 01:43 PM
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Re: \"I Check / Raise In the Dark.\" Is the Raise Binding?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Eventually the floor decided that it WAS a verbal move and he lost all his chips. [/ QUOTE ] Because he was next to act and it could easily be an angleshot to get a free showdown. If you are next to act and say something like this, it should be binding. Check raise in the dark isn't binding because they aren't next to act. They check and then someone else has the action. In this situation the old guy was next to act and he is obligated to call. TMTTR, sorry if I got your letters wrong, is exactly right, the timing is very important. [/ QUOTE ] Steam, Your responses are just what I was looking for in this thread; do you have floor experience? Are you of the Randy Re ilk? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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#27
06-27-2007, 02:13 PM
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Re: \"I Check / Raise In the Dark.\" Is the Raise Binding?
[ QUOTE ]
Steam, Your responses are just what I was looking for in this thread; do you have floor experience? Are you of the Randy Re ilk? [/ QUOTE ] No, I just play. Randy has corrected so many times in the past, I am starting to figure it out.
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#28
06-27-2007, 02:29 PM
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Re: \"I Check / Raise In the Dark.\" Is the Raise Binding?
[ QUOTE ]
I want to comment on MGM - I believe they have the best floor staff in LV today. I have has similar experiences at MGM where floor not only gives a rule to a hypothetical, but is gracious enough to explain why. [/ QUOTE ] I generally try to avoid speculating on hypotheticals. If someone seem to truly have an interest I will talk with them about it, but I have found that at least 75% of the time when someone has a "hypothetical" they are changing around a story that actually happened to them (most likely in the same room) and they want the floor to tell them the floorman that made the ruling was wrong.
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#29
06-27-2007, 02:36 PM
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Re: \"I Check / Raise In the Dark.\" Is the Raise Binding?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I want to comment on MGM - I believe they have the best floor staff in LV today. I have has similar experiences at MGM where floor not only gives a rule to a hypothetical, but is gracious enough to explain why. [/ QUOTE ] I generally try to avoid speculating on hypotheticals. If someone seem to truly have an interest I will talk with them about it, but I have found that at least 75% of the time when someone has a "hypothetical" they are changing around a story that actually happened to them (most likely in the same room) and they want the floor to tell them the floorman that made the ruling was wrong. [/ QUOTE ] I've been away a while; is that you, Randy Re? [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] I understand the concern with hypos, but in this case, there was no prior real-life scenario. And much more concerning was the floor's complete lack of conviction. But I think there are some interesting hypotheticals here, and I'm not ashamed to say that I don't know the "standard" ruling in many cases. For example, the whole "You bet I'll shove" situation. Thanks for posting.
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#30
06-27-2007, 02:41 PM
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Re: \"I Check / Raise In the Dark.\" Is the Raise Binding?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I want to comment on MGM - I believe they have the best floor staff in LV today. I have has similar experiences at MGM where floor not only gives a rule to a hypothetical, but is gracious enough to explain why. [/ QUOTE ] I generally try to avoid speculating on hypotheticals. If someone seem to truly have an interest I will talk with them about it, but I have found that at least 75% of the time when someone has a "hypothetical" they are changing around a story that actually happened to them (most likely in the same room) and they want the floor to tell them the floorman that made the ruling was wrong. [/ QUOTE ] I've been away a while; is that you, Randy Re? [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] I understand the concern with hypos, but in this case, there was no prior real-life scenario. And much more concerning was the floor's complete lack of conviction. But I think there are some interesting hypotheticals here, and I'm not ashamed to say that I don't know the "standard" ruling in many cases. For example, the whole "You bet I'll shove" situation. Thanks for posting. [/ QUOTE ] Here it isn't a problem, I was referring to when someon walksup to me at work or calls me on the phone to ask a hypothetical.
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