Harrah's WSOP ripoff

[MrFizzbin]

[ QUOTE ]
NO - WSOP department allows the cocktails to be comped.

The convention staff is not going to give the drinks away for nothing.

Therefore - WSOP has to pay the convention department whatever to convention department charges.

Which is one reason why WSOP is not the cash cow you think it is.

It is not a symbiotic relationship between departments.

So - you can thank the WSOP for buying you a $2.25 coke while you are playing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Lets see who does the convention guy work for ? Harrahs
Who do the WSOP guys work for? Harrahs

If I take money from my right pocket and put it in my left pocket does it stop being my money ? Don't think so...

If moving my money from my right pocket to my left pocket lets me take a deduction on my taxes does that increase my bottom line ? Hmmmmm I think it might...

despite my left pocket being richer than my right. I don't really care, as long as the money is in one of my pockets....

[Cornell Fiji]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
NO - WSOP department allows the cocktails to be comped.

The convention staff is not going to give the drinks away for nothing.

Therefore - WSOP has to pay the convention department whatever to convention department charges.

Which is one reason why WSOP is not the cash cow you think it is.

It is not a symbiotic relationship between departments.

So - you can thank the WSOP for buying you a $2.25 coke while you are playing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Lets see who does the convention guy work for ? Harrahs
Who do the WSOP guys work for? Harrahs

If I take money from my right pocket and put it in my left pocket does it stop being my money ? Don't think so...

If moving my money from my right pocket to my left pocket lets me take a deduction on my taxes does that increase my bottom line ? Hmmmmm I think it might...

despite my left pocket being richer than my right. I don't really care, as long as the money is in one of my pockets....

[/ QUOTE ]


Everyone making outrageous claims in this thread needs to take a financial accounting class.

[Cornell Fiji]

[ QUOTE ]
Let me clear some things up.

If WSOP did not make money, why would Harrah's have it? The WSOP makes an absolute killing for the RIO, and the company as a whole, as do the circuit events.

While general tournament poker is designed to drive people through the door for live play, the event itself makes a profit. Please remember that the majority of the tournament staff are temporary employees that have the majority of their wages paid from the prize pool.

There is some truth to the separation of departments, but the entire event makes a tremendous amount of money for the property. I assure you this is not a guess.

Having said that, why would anyone think that amenities at the most populated poker event in the world be cheap? the gentleman that suggested market demand is correct. I find it trite that paying for a soda spurred you to title a post a ripoff.

[/ QUOTE ]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loss_leader

But olivert says that they have been making money since 2005 so it is no longer a loss leader.

[Sweet James]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Let me clear some things up.

If WSOP did not make money, why would Harrah's have it? The WSOP makes an absolute killing for the RIO, and the company as a whole, as do the circuit events.

While general tournament poker is designed to drive people through the door for live play, the event itself makes a profit. Please remember that the majority of the tournament staff are temporary employees that have the majority of their wages paid from the prize pool.

There is some truth to the separation of departments, but the entire event makes a tremendous amount of money for the property. I assure you this is not a guess.

Having said that, why would anyone think that amenities at the most populated poker event in the world be cheap? the gentleman that suggested market demand is correct. I find it trite that paying for a soda spurred you to title a post a ripoff.

[/ QUOTE ]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loss_leader

But olivert says that they have been making money since 2005 so it is no longer a loss leader.

[/ QUOTE ]
They've only owned it since 2005 lol. anyone says that they don't make millions off this is a harrahs stooge with no knowledge of simple arithmetic.

[KennyBanya]

Olivert,

Does the additional rake from cash games count when evaluating whether the WSOP is profitable or not? What about table games, or food and drink or hotel rooms? There must be some licensing revenue to consider as well.

It seems very easy to believe the tournament is not profitable as a stand alone entity. It seems very difficult to believe the Rio/Harrah's is not making more money right now then it would be without the WSOP going on.

Peace,

KennyBanya

[Arnold_O]

[ QUOTE ]
Lou - You obviously do not understand how WSOP, or gaming in general, works.

1) WSOP is NOT a cash cow. If I told you what RIO makes to the bottom line for WSOP, you would be shocked.



[/ QUOTE ]

thanks for the laugh.

harrah's is making millions off these games.

last year they had (2) 100 gallon jugs of ice water for anyone who wanted it. this year they took it away forcing us to pay $4.00 for a bottle of dasani. Coca Cola makes Dasani and it's purified tap water from rivers and lakes.

[MJBuddy]

This just in: Companies want profit.



Another flashing headline: Due to supply and demand curves, they will charge whatever maximizes their value by selling everything for as much as people are willing to pay for it.

IF you complain about this, you are an idiot; and by a certain stretch of mentality...a Communist :P.

[tourney guy]

Primerib, you ask some real good questions.

1)Q: If WSOP did not make money, why would Harrah's have it?
A: It depends what you call 'make money'

When HET got WSOP, the model is to make SOME money from the rake, but to attract thousands of people to its hotels. To that end, RIO gets much more business from room/food and gaming revenue that it does from the entity of the WSOP itself.

Yes, rake is big. But, WSOP charges to its rake:

1) Payroll - HUGE EXPENSE
2) Lease of Convention space - HUGE, HUGE EXPENSE
3) Cost of surveillance - HUGE EXPENSE
4) Lease of tables and purchase of chips - MODERATE EXPENSE

The bottom line number would shock you, but it is not the mulit-million dollar bonanza everyone thinks it is.

So, you say the event make profit, but it is not a large profit, trust me.

Q: Is there validity to the statement
"There is some truth to the separation of departments, but the entire event makes a tremendous amount of money for the property. I assure you this is not a guess."

A: Yes, but it is incomplete. The REAL value to the RIO of the WSOP is the incremental business in the pit, slots, and romm/F&B.

All I can tell you, without quoting the numbers, that that every aforementioned department set the property record for revenue in the month/months the WSOP was there. Slot revenue alone accounts for as much bottom line revenue at the tournament itself, and that stands to logic. At WSOP, the revenue is linear and static. I make X per player, multiplied by Y players, so X x Y = gross revenue.

THEN I have to pay off payroll, labor, licencing, leasing, supplies, etc. Small margin when you affect all the costs.

The same players like to gamble, thay go to a craps table and play shoot, play BJ, play slots.

In theory, a player like Phil Ivey could play in every event and HET would make $4000 TOPS off of him (it is much less since he cannot concievably play in every event).

After a day of play, he goes out and plays dice. RIO has a chace to win big against him. Dice games traditionally hold 12% in strip joints. So, if he bets 10K a day for the same 50 days, we likely are going to beat him out of $48,000.

That is the key to WSOP.

Olivert is correct. Benny and Jack Binion has WSOP not to make money from the TOURNAMENTS, but instead from the CASH GAMES AND TABLE/SLOT ACTION.

Q: Is this true? 'The WSOP makes an absolute killing........as do the circuit events.'

A: Totally false. Evidence to that? In 2005/2006, HET had 5 circuit events in Las Vegas. In 2007, I think they are only having 1. If they are such cash cows......why to event at Harrahs LV or Bally's/Paris???? It is because they do not make money.

Bottom line, the value of the WSOP is not the tournaments, it is everything else associated with the event.

If tournament players were so 'valuable', why do they not get comped other than a $10-off buffet ticket?????

Think about it.

[tourney guy]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Lou - You obviously do not understand how WSOP, or gaming in general, works.

1) WSOP is NOT a cash cow. If I told you what RIO makes to the bottom line for WSOP, you would be shocked.



[/ QUOTE ]

thanks for the laugh.

harrah's is making millions off these games.

last year they had (2) 100 gallon jugs of ice water for anyone who wanted it. this year they took it away forcing us to pay $4.00 for a bottle of dasani. Coca Cola makes Dasani and it's purified tap water from rivers and lakes.

[/ QUOTE ]

Arnold, the beauty of poker is that the tournament players are such degenerate gluttons, they will continue to go to WSOP and get treated like crap.

When you say "forcing us to pay $4.00 for a bottle of dasani", YOU ACTUALLY ARE DUMB ENOUGH TO PAY IT!!!!!!!

That is why WSOP, on the whole as an entity, makes money.

The rake is to cover cost, the $4 bottle of water, is the true profit.

It is not the games, it is the degenerate nature of knuckleheads who continue to go to the WSOP.

[flavio321]

steve wynn step up and create a competing month long series!