Ask mrbaseball about trading for a living

[mrbaseball]

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could you please elaborate more on the computer skills? C++? You mentioned Vbasic for excel?


[/ QUOTE ]

Heh [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I don't have 'em as I'm a dinosaur [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] But I know a couple of the newer guys have these skills and were brought in specifically for automated trading program work.

[mrbaseball]

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I've proven to myself that taking the trade is +EV - yet clicking on the "buy" button on the screen when all I see is doom, gloom, and red arrows, feels like selling my soul.


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I know that feeling well! A trade always looks fantastic until you get it on [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Read both of Mark Douglas' books (The Dicsiplined Trader and Trading in the Zone) if you haven't already. These will help. Read the Way of the Turtle by Curtis Faith (sounds like his strategies are right up your alley).

I am relatively new to directional trading (a couple of years) and it is only a portion of what I do but it definitely has some pyschological hurdles and boundaries to overcome. Most of my career has always been spreading of some sort be it options or futures and grand strategies. For that kind of trading the psycholical hurdles are minimal.

For my spec trading (trading outside or my managed trade programs) I typically scalp spreads. But I wanted to learn directional trading so a few years back I added that to my arsenal. It feels different in every way [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] So I read and studied a lot. The Douglas books helped me a great deal in my directional trading pursuits. When I first read them I thought he was writing about me specifically!

[hapaboii]

Thanks for starting this thread.

MrB,

Would love to hear some funny/entertaining stories from your days on the floor.


To those asking about getting into trading, I think it's good to do a bit of initial research to see if it's something you really want to do. Also, try to get an idea of products you think you'd be interested in and what type of trading(though, early on it's hard to be picky). This may change over time but it's best to get started on a path you are really excited about.
In general, I'd advise against an MBA, although MBAs should still be competitive for plain vanilla desks. If you are considering any school post undergrad at all, good choices are math, physics, fineng, comp sci, stats, ee.

Regarding trading room setups, there is a thread on EliteTrader about this topic specifically. Perhaps the most impressive:

Trading Station

[housenuts]

Are these blackbox systems you mention essentially like bots on poker sites? Why do you think bots would be outlawed, but trading bots are becoming the norm?

Is alot of trading similar to arb'ing sports bets?

thanks, this is a very helpful thread

[mrbaseball]

[ QUOTE ]
Would love to hear some funny/entertaining stories from your days on the floor

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll have to think on that? Most of them are "you had to be there" type of stuff. We used to refer to the floor as Thunderdome. The pit I spent most of time in (bond options) was probably the most crowded imagineable. 300 guys all crammed in nut to butt all belching and farting and sweating and spitting on each other all day long. All the other pits guys were shoulder to shoulder but we had too many people and too little space.

I would also like to add there are all kinds of "trading". Market makers are in and out or in and hedged. I was never really sure what that guy on the other end of the phone was doing? I am uncertain what it's like to be a bank trader or a hedge fund trader. At first I was concerned that on all of the trades I was taking the other side of were from Goldman and Merrill and Soros and Salomon etc. etc. etc.
But that is the nature of the market maker. The big boys are willing to pay the edge to get their hedge or trade on.

[mrbaseball]

[ QUOTE ]
Are these blackbox systems you mention essentially like bots on poker sites? Why do you think bots would be outlawed, but trading bots are becoming the norm?


[/ QUOTE ]

Probably a bit more complex in trading but the same idea. Personally I can't see a reason in the world for poker bots to be outlawed.

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Is alot of trading similar to arb'ing sports bets?


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Very similar. A lot of what I do in arbitrage is the same basic premise as sports arbs but the scale in trading is way way way larger because the markets are so much bigger. Arb trades come and go. The really good ones never last because they get arbed out and there is no edge to it anymore after everyone catches on. But they keep inventing new contracts and etfs and new opportunities pop up all the time. Just gotta ride as long as you can and keep looking for the next one.

[APXG]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for starting this thread.

MrB,

Would love to hear some funny/entertaining stories from your days on the floor.


To those asking about getting into trading, I think it's good to do a bit of initial research to see if it's something you really want to do. Also, try to get an idea of products you think you'd be interested in and what type of trading(though, early on it's hard to be picky). This may change over time but it's best to get started on a path you are really excited about.
In general, I'd advise against an MBA, although MBAs should still be competitive for plain vanilla desks. If you are considering any school post undergrad at all, good choices are math, physics, fineng, comp sci, stats, ee.

Regarding trading room setups, there is a thread on EliteTrader about this topic specifically. Perhaps the most impressive:

Trading Station

[/ QUOTE ]

hapa / others,

Obviously to a nontrader that setup looks ridiculous, but realistically, why isn't it standard? The cost of 24 or even 100 monitors to any profitable trader is chump change, no? And the luxury of not having to replace graphs on screens has not be at least somewhat useful it seems.

[hapaboii]

[ QUOTE ]

hapa / others,

Obviously to a nontrader that setup looks ridiculous, but realistically, why isn't it standard? The cost of 24 or even 100 monitors to any profitable trader is chump change, no? And the luxury of not having to replace graphs on screens has not be at least somewhat useful it seems.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good question. While I do think the particular setup I've linked is very impressive visually, in terms of discretionary trader performance, the utility gained from number of monitors is, I suspect, highest between 2 and 8. You only want to use as many monitors as you are comfortable with. I believe for discretionary traders, it's actually possible to have TOO many monitors where you'll suffer from information overload and performance potential will be negatively affected.

The setup I've linked, as described by the poster, included 24 lcds, with voice activation for order entry, and 2 full time traders watching over the system. If I recall correctly, trade signals were automated; the system was trading equity options.

[mrbaseball]

[ QUOTE ]
the utility gained from number of monitors is, I suspect, highest between 2 and 8.

[/ QUOTE ]

This sounds about right. I use 4 monitors on 2 computers (2 monitors each) and a laptop for other stuff. A lot of the stuff I do doesn't take constant supervision though as long as it can be seen when needed. On 2 monitors I have my charts and stock/option trading software and on the other two I have my commodities trading screens.

[kimchi]

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Trading Station

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A lot of traders get by with just a laptop with some basic charting software and MS Excel.

It depends a lot upon your timeframe and trading style. I think a lot of guys with all the monitors perpetually flickering red and green with each tick become mesmerised.

It must be like sitting in front of a huge one-armed bandit all day.