tips for getting full-time offer on Wall St.

[NajdorfDefense]

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Najdorf,
Thanks for your detailed response. I lol'd at your flowchart, too. I've briefly considered I-banking, but I figure money's no good if you don't have time to spend it.

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My thoughts exactly.

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That's why I left. Trading/money mgmt is a much better lifestyle if you can handle the stress.

Naj

ps What stress...OPM baby!

[Riverman]

The money's plenty good if you retire at the age of 40 and never have to work again.

[SlowHabit]

What exactly is "i-banking?" You're investing for a bank?

[KDuff]

investment banking

[higher_energy]

Thanks a lot for all the insight. I was away for a while, had a ton of work and didn't really have time to check 2p2.

To answer some of the questions: I go to Tufts and I have a 3.36. I was a mess freshman year, took way too many hard classes for a freshman, joined the varsity team, slept during the day and worked at night and have been raising my GPA ever since.
I agree with what a lot of you are saying about the importance of networking, interviewing skills and being a good fit for the firm. Ultimatly, they will hire the guy with whom they can get a drink after work. While all of this is true I feel like the hardest is to be able to GET that 1st round interview, at least for me.
For the past two and a halfs weeks I have been scouring Boston and NYC for anyone that can be of any help. My parents don't have any contacts at all in the finance world because I am not from the U.S.
In any case, I have been to pretty much every presentation/conference/networking panel at Harvard, MIT and of course at my school (can't make them all because of classes). After being stared up and down by all the harvard kids and sending over 40 thank you notes I feel like I haven't made that much progress.
I am pushing very hard throuhg all the Tufts alums and the career network at my school, but the problem here is that they are taking at most 1-2 kids for each firm and I am competing against some of the very best with MUCH higher point averages.
What else do you think I should be doing to increase my chances of getting a full-time position?
Also, up to a few weeks ago I was certain that I want to do S&T but now, after reading more resources and talking to analysts, I am also interested in IBD because I feel like I can develop a broader skill set which will be more transferable in the future and i can get exposure to deal flow. While I am still young I am OK with working insane hours so that doesn't bother me at all about IBD. I know that these are completely different areas, require different skill sets and personality types. My question is this: If i apply for both at one firm do you think that will jeopardize my chances for getting either one of them? Same goes for applying to other departametns like GTS, CM etc? You think i should just focus on one thing or go for whatever I can get?

Last point that I wanted to make. In response to gimpoone, I wanted to say that I DID NOT intern at Wall St. this summer. Instead I interned in Moscow at the leading Russian Ibanks (had to get a visa so had to come back). It was just as intense, but I feel like thats a disadvantage relative to other candidates.


To whoever made it to the end of this post..thanks a lot and I appreciate any comments, tips or advice.

higher_energy

[higher_energy]

You work at Goldman rigt?

What do you think got you your first IB job if it wasn't your resume/GPA?

[NajdorfDefense]

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To answer some of the questions: I go to Tufts and I have a 3.36. I was a mess freshman year, took way too many hard classes for a freshman, joined the varsity team, slept during the day and worked at night and have been raising my GPA ever since.

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Not a problem you just gotta tell that story well.

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After being stared up and down by all the harvard kids and sending over 40 thank you notes I feel like I haven't made that much progress.

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Life is like that. Persistence + Sincerity + Discipline = eventual Reward.
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Also, up to a few weeks ago I was certain that I want to do S&T but now, after reading more resources and talking to analysts, I am also interested in IBD because I feel like I can develop a broader skill set which will be more transferable in the future and i can get exposure to deal flow. While I am still young I am OK with working insane hours so that doesn't bother me at all about IBD. I know that these are completely different areas, require different skill sets and personality types. My question is this: If i apply for both at one firm do you think that will jeopardize my chances for getting either one of them?

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Of course not.

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Same goes for applying to other departametns like GTS, CM etc? You think i should just focus on one thing or go for whatever I can get?


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If you really want a job in a certain area - you MUST focus on that area - networking, interviewing, resume, thank-yous, info sessions, leverage the Tufts office to give you anyone's name in the industry and start writing them. Squeaky wheel, etc.

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Last point that I wanted to make. In response to gimpoone, I wanted to say that I DID NOT intern at Wall St. this summer. Instead I interned in Moscow at the leading Russian Ibanks (had to get a visa so had to come back). It was just as intense, but I feel like thats a disadvantage relative to other candidates.

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Totally disagree - that is an advantage, I can't even see someone else in HR not thinking so, although they may certainly press you on it to ensure you were doing 'real' work.

At the end of the day, you get lucky/network your way into the first round interviews. From there, it's all in how you perform in that 30 minutes. You must be able to sell yourself, period. Dress smart, read up on *anything and everything* having to do with markets, wall st, deal flow, energy mkts, et al. NEVER be late, shoes polished, nice tie, make polite conversation with the ass'ts/receptionists, immediate thank-you notes, perfectly formatted resume, etc.

I graduated a semester early, so it was easier for me to get interviews/meet with people, just happened to work out better for me because there were much fewer candidates finishing up during fall than spring.

[higher_energy]

Ok thanks for the input. A couple of other things

1) Econ/Pricing/Strategic consultants, on average, get paid less then people both IBD and trading. No huge bonuses, less perks, but slightly better hours. Y/N?
2) If i get an offer in say one of the product groups how hard could it be to switch to trading? Is this at all possible, totally dependent on the firm/your perfomance etc.?
3) NajdorDefense - do you mind sharing where you worked straight out of undergrad and as I asked you before, what got you that first job if it wasn't for your resume/GPA? Was it all through networking/connections? Something else entirely different? Did you do something in college that separated you from the rest / what was the biggest strength of your resume?
4) Last question: An ibank made me an offer with a relocation bonus + sign up bonus if I sign before Middle of October. They also want my decision now. This is not a U.S. based bank but its very good, killing its competition, amazing corporate culture etc. Obviously, its smaller.
Having said all that, I still want to work on Wall St. Should I take my chances or go with the sure thing?

thanks

[hapaboii]

1) Yes.
2) Definitely possible but would first need to be a strong performer and build relationships.
3) I don't know Najdor's background but GPA does matter to HR who need to screen resumes. Networking is a good way to bypass this.
As for my resume, it was pretty generic.(3.5gpa, top 25 ugrad, investment clubs, pwm internship). Separated myself through the interview(you'd be amazed how many kids don't come off as genuinely passionate/knowledgeable about investing/trading).
4) I'm going to assume this is for IBD analyst position. What bank is it? location? I am not a banker but often hear it is important to know what the office deal flow will be because this determines the experience you'll get.

[saucyspade19]

Hey guys can I cut in with a question too?

This thread is super-interesting and you guys seem to know what you are talking about. I am trying to transition myself into finance/banking as a senior with a psych major/econ minor (3.1gpa - SUCK). I interned with a home building company and worked for a mortgage title company, so my previous experience is eclectic and not entirely applicable. What would be a good way to get my foot in the door in an interview? I have no idea how to make myself an attractive recruit, or how to make my major/minor combination look good.

And what about grad school? Would getting an MBA be worthwhile to work in this industry?

Thanks guys.