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  #11  
Old 11-21-2007, 06:06 AM
Mat Sklansky Mat Sklansky is offline
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Default Re: PETA documentary last night

I wouldn't have to think about it. In the situation you describe where I instinctively stretch my arms out to save a life, I wouldn't even see the human being.

Part of this answer comes from personal experience regarding my dog and the attachment I feel to her. She was attacked by a large pitbull mix last year. I consider myself a real pussy. I've never been in a real fight, but my instinct was to jump on top of the pit and put my fingers in it's mouth. Pure instinct.

But maybe this isn't an act of love for a life force. How would I react if someone tried to steal my car? Maybe I would be stupid enough to put my fingers in their mouth. Instinct. I would say such an act is unthinkable, but I would have said the same thing regarding my dog if you asked me before that incident.

Getting back to this whole PETA thing. How many of us consumers wouldn't be willing to pay just a little bit more for a pound of animal flesh if we could be certain the animal wasn't "tortured" in that short period of time it had while waiting for us to eat it? And, sure, "torture" means different things to different people. But, by your definition, would you pay 50 cents more per pound to avoid the "torture" of the animal you eat? I'm pretty sure the loungers would. Not so sure about the golfers.
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  #12  
Old 11-21-2007, 07:47 AM
Kiera Kiera is offline
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Default Re: PETA documentary last night

When our dog, dhar, was attacked by the pit, I was incapacitated. Mat dove under my jeep coming back up with the pit by the back of the neck and our dog at her throat. This image haunts me.

Mat’s complete disregard for his own safety to save the life of our dog was driven by an adrenalin rush of super human strength to save her life. Dhar’s own self defense mechanisms kicked in and she sacrificed a front tooth in the brawl.

In the meantime, I only half lived as a spectator.

To get back to the point, when he says, “I wouldn’t even see the human being”, to me that means that his respect for life is not colored by the conventional definitions of life. He didn’t even see the canine in this case. What he saw was simply the love for life.

When it comes to peta, I think that what has happened is that it takes a huge action to get a reaction. We are so used to wearing leather and eating meat, it is so much a part of the normal lifestyle that it takes an act outside of the norm to make a slight impact on reconsidering the ethics of those beliefs.
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  #13  
Old 11-21-2007, 09:03 AM
Fishwhenican Fishwhenican is offline
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Default Re: PETA documentary last night

Oh Please! (I promise to try and restrain myself)

PETA IS a bunch of lunatic wackjobs and should not in any way shape or form be respected. The danger in thinking that they are only doing things and making statements that are outlandish is that you miss the fact that these idiots actually believe what they are saying. They are not doing it to "make a point". They really would put a stop to anything involving use of animals like eating or making clothes. This includes things very near and dear to me like hunting and fishing.

I will go on record saying I have zero respect for PETA. Should people be nice to animals, yes. Should we fight Pit bulls, No. Should we be allowed to hunt and fish, Yes. Should we be allowed to enjoys a great big juicy steak for dinner, Yes. Should we be allowed to wear leather shoes, Yes. PETA is an abomination or irrational, delusional idiots.

Here is the problem with having a rational discussion about PETA. Most people are fairly rational and normal with their views on animals. Some are at the edges in the extreme areas, lets say Peta on one end and Michael Vick and dog fighters on the other. I am not going to be able to convince a Peta person about anything. Rational arguement doesn't work because the idiots are not rational. Same thing with a dog fighter. They may realize that what they did was in fact illegal but deep inside they do not see that what they were doing was actually wrong. A rational person in the middle of all of this should be able to make some common sense decisions about how animals are treated but with PETA out there trying to convince people that things like Fishing should be stopped it muddys the water.

I didn't say all of that well but make no mistake, I do not in any way shape or form like or respect PETA. The only PETA I respect is "People for the Eating of Taasty Animals". Make no mistake, if you like your steaks and burger, If you want to wear leather motorcycle jackets, if you want to take a kid fishing some day, you cannot see PETA as anything other than a bunch of no good lunatic wack jobs.

Oh, Did I mention that I HATE PETA! Not much really makes me really see red but PETA gets my blood boiling.
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  #14  
Old 11-21-2007, 10:11 AM
diebitter diebitter is offline
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Default Re: PETA documentary last night

I think anyone suggesting we stop farming for meat and dairy is a whackjob, and actually will be effectively driving those species we derive food from into extinction. Humans do that, if some big lumbering animal is competing with us for food in some form, we kill it till there's no more. IF you don't believe me, google on the Pleistocene Extinction, and see exactly how long humans have been doing this - very effectively, I might add (though more often for ood than for competing resources, I'll add).

However, personal and institutional cruelty is really not acceptable. Even if you don't care about the animals, cultivating behaviours that desensitise people to suffering can't be good.
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  #15  
Old 11-21-2007, 10:57 AM
kerowo kerowo is offline
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Default Re: PETA documentary last night

[ QUOTE ]
Getting back to this whole PETA thing. How many of us consumers wouldn't be willing to pay just a little bit more for a pound of animal flesh if we could be certain the animal wasn't "tortured" in that short period of time it had while waiting for us to eat it? And, sure, "torture" means different things to different people. But, by your definition, would you pay 50 cents more per pound to avoid the "torture" of the animal you eat? I'm pretty sure the loungers would. Not so sure about the golfers.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know, I think I'd be more willing to pay more for fruits and vegetables to provide a living wage and better working conditions to migrant farm workers before trying to tackle "humane torture" to cows.
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  #16  
Old 11-21-2007, 11:30 AM
Fishwhenican Fishwhenican is offline
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Default Re: PETA documentary last night

[ QUOTE ]
I wouldn't have to think about it. In the situation you describe where I instinctively stretch my arms out to save a life, I wouldn't even see the human being.

Part of this answer comes from personal experience regarding my dog and the attachment I feel to her. She was attacked by a large pitbull mix last year. I consider myself a real pussy. I've never been in a real fight, but my instinct was to jump on top of the pit and put my fingers in it's mouth. Pure instinct.

But maybe this isn't an act of love for a life force. How would I react if someone tried to steal my car? Maybe I would be stupid enough to put my fingers in their mouth. Instinct. I would say such an act is unthinkable, but I would have said the same thing regarding my dog if you asked me before that incident.

Getting back to this whole PETA thing. How many of us consumers wouldn't be willing to pay just a little bit more for a pound of animal flesh if we could be certain the animal wasn't "tortured" in that short period of time it had while waiting for us to eat it? And, sure, "torture" means different things to different people. But, by your definition, would you pay 50 cents more per pound to avoid the "torture" of the animal you eat? I'm pretty sure the loungers would. Not so sure about the golfers.

[/ QUOTE ]

I save my dog first if the drowning person is one of the PETA Wackjobs. After that for most people I do not hesitate to save the human being, unless I know they are child molestors or something of that sort. In that case I make sure to push them under and do everything I can to make sure my dog lives and they die.

As far as animals that are "tortured" for food goes, Most animals that are raised for food or milk or whatever are treated pretty darn well. I am actually convinced that cows would be extinct if it wasn't for humans. I have worked cows and know a lot of ranchers around here and they love their animals and take as good a care of them as they can. This is one of the reasons it is perfectly legal to shoot dogs that are harassing cows. It is also one of the reason why it is legal to shoot coyotes on sight and why wolves and Grizzly bears are not really welcome in a lot of places. I have watched ranchers as we work cows talk about nearly every cow and how long they have been on the ranch and it's almost is as if they are members of their family. I am sure there are some things that are done to animals that could be considered cruel but for the most part domesticated animals are pretty pampered.

Did I mention that I hate PETA!
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  #17  
Old 11-21-2007, 12:05 PM
dylan's alias dylan's alias is offline
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Default Re: PETA documentary last night

[ QUOTE ]
Oh Please! (I promise to try and restrain myself)

PETA IS a bunch of lunatic wackjobs and should not in any way shape or form be respected. The danger in thinking that they are only doing things and making statements that are outlandish is that you miss the fact that these idiots actually believe what they are saying. They are not doing it to "make a point". They really would put a stop to anything involving use of animals like eating or making clothes. This includes things very near and dear to me like hunting and fishing.

[/ QUOTE ]

But the beauty is that they don't necessarily believe what they espouse. They don't want you to use animals for anything, but if one of their lives were endangered:

[ QUOTE ]
PETA Senior Vice President MaryBeth Sweetland on her use of insulin, which was tested on animals:

"I'm an insulin-dependent diabetic. Twice a day I take synthetically manufactured insulin that still contains some animal products -- and I have no qualms about it ... I'm not going to take the chance of killing myself by not taking insulin. I don't see myself as a hypocrite. I need my life to fight for the rights of animals."
--Glamour, January 1990

[/ QUOTE ]

So, no new medical research and no use of any animal products, except for her insulin because "I need my life to fight for the rights of animals." Screw her.

The poster above who said that there is no reason to respect PETA because they are totally inflexible is absolutely right. They are a bunch of lunatics (who support the Animal Liberation Front, a radical terrorist group).

We should do our best to try to minimize the suffering of the animals that we rely on for our needs, and yes, maybe we should pay a little more to ensure it. Naturally all medical research on animals should be halted and PETA members should be used instead.
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  #18  
Old 11-21-2007, 12:19 PM
Fishwhenican Fishwhenican is offline
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Default Re: PETA documentary last night

[ QUOTE ]

We should do our best to try to minimize the suffering of the animals that we rely on for our needs, and yes, maybe we should pay a little more to ensure it. Naturally all medical research on animals should be halted and PETA members should be used instead.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh Hell Ya!!!
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  #19  
Old 11-21-2007, 12:33 PM
andyfox andyfox is offline
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Default Re: PETA documentary last night

Shelly Berman, the old-time comedian (who plays Larry David's father on Curb), used to say that he had a joke in his act that involved throwing his dog and his mother-in-law out of his 5th story window. He says he used to get tons of letters denigrating him for harming the dog, but never one for harming his mother-in-law.

I know lots of people for whom their dog is the most important "person" in their life. if it makes life easier, more bearable, more enjoyable for them, that's great. Most of them have trouble relating to other human beings.

With all the problems that people have in the world, it has always bothered me that some people with energy, enthusiasm and empathy would channel those qualities into support for animals. I don't give a sh*t about a mink or a chicken or a dog. Like all good hypocrites, I would never hunt or intentionally harm an animal, but I have no problem doing nothing about animal experimentation or eating a dead chicken. And, likewise, I have no problem doing virtually nothing about human disease in Africa.
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  #20  
Old 11-21-2007, 12:49 PM
Mat Sklansky Mat Sklansky is offline
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Default Re: PETA documentary last night

Actually, this is why I do respect PETA and all of the people/ groups (whackos and not) who are out there trying to "tackle" societal issues related to the enviroment, poverty, war, homelessness, etc.

I'm basically a loser in this regard. I don't try to tackle anything. I manage a company that sells books about gambling and get to say penis on a message board.

To show that I am balanced on this issue, I think we should have a thread where people detail the most exotic animals they have eaten. Frog's legs are the extent for me. They did taste like chicken.
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