The 99 Preflop SB Debate

[TA3]

If villain always call your c-bet and fire turn/river, then just wait for a solid tp type hand and call him down. He won't have a hand every time. On the other hand, if he changes gear and stop firing turn/river, then you can get to showdown cheap with a mid pair like 99.

You are giving up way too much equity preflop if you are just limping 99.

[dtan05]

well, I dunno about you, but at 2/4, almost nobody's gonna fire 2 barrels after you fire without having a hand with high absolute strength

[john kane]

i think donkeykong and TA3 say it well in that it really is a case of it being based on recent hand history and adapting your decisions based on what your opponent will think of you based on recent collisions. this is pretty much what i realised when taking time off and studying the game, that against regulars it really is very history based and using that to your advantage.

dtan, i agree in general that people won't fire 2 barrels on turn and river in that hand betting system, but they will if i start folding rivers. so i'd need to call sometimes and fold others, which then becomes a bit of a lottery not in our favour as we are the ones always checking whereas he can decide whether to bet or check based on the recent history, and use that to his advantage.

anyways, i'm not trying to suggest any of you are wrong, we all have our ideas and i imagine we are all long term winners, but i just wanted to pose this as i think as we are up against more regulars at 2-4nl+ it's become more important to know what to do have hand plans and a range of hand plays based on recent play rather than having a set system (which i think works well at below 2-4nl, but 3-6nl and above i think concentrating on your opponents becomes increasingly important - yeah very basic, but still very important).

[AAismyfriend]

being able to read hands well is the deciding factor in how much you win/lose/get run the [censored] over in these spots.

[Redgrape]

I think you're seriously misunderstanding the postflop strength of 99, even OOP, blind versus blind.

[DrMagic]

I think limping 99 in the SB is ok sometimes in the situation you suggested, but only to mix things up as I'll be raising it most of the times regardless. In fact I think I've maybe open-completed in the SB about 3 times in my last 40k hands

[john kane]

[ QUOTE ]
I think you're seriously misunderstanding the postflop strength of 99, even OOP, blind versus blind.

[/ QUOTE ]

please explain, i am interested.

we have 61.5% equity when seeing a flop vs any ace, any pair, any suited con and gap con above 56s and any two cards above 9.

maybe that is enough. i think good tricky players are far more likely to try to make moves when they've called a raise rather than when they've checked in the big blind, so i think his hand becomes far easier to read when you limp pf (when he wont get fancy).

edit: [ QUOTE ]
In fact I think I've maybe open-completed in the SB about 3 times in my last 40k hands

[/ QUOTE ]

doesnt this become very exploitable?

[FionnMac]

empty your pm box john! thx

[dtan05]

well a good tricky player is going to raise like 40-50% of his hands, right?

[CadillacZack]

raise, u want money in the pot with a hand that has a statistical edge over his. It only going to be interesting when he does raise which will be not that often. Your strategy is alright only if u are facing people with the win every pot disease and even then you will be faced with expensive decisions since he is the one taking inititiave which you have allowed. Guessing is never good but i suppose it is necessary in this situation. Playing 99 likr this tailors toward a certain type of player with good judgment in these type of situations. Are u planning on goin into check call mode once the flop comes or what? If you play 99 like this preflop "slowly" i guess it would be same to assume to.