50NL - Two hand line check - the call followed by aggression

playtitleist · #1 06-06-2007, 11:37 AM

I know it's supposed to be one hand per post, but I wanted to show two examples of what I am trying to reason out. I smooth call then play an aggressive line in both these hands. I am feeling like this is the nuts every time. I should expect no calls. Agree?

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

MP ($47.80)
CO ($53.25)
Button ($49.40)
SB ($20)
Hero ($43.45)
UTG ($58.80)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. UTG posts a blind of $0.50.
2 folds, Button calls $0.50, Hero raises to $2.75, 1 fold, Button calls $2.

Flop: ($5.75) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets $4.5, Button calls $4.50.

Turn: ($14.75) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $5.5, Hero calls $5.50.

River: ($25.75) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets $20.95, Button folds.

Final Pot: $46.70

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

MP ($65.65)
Hero ($52.50)
Button ($60)
SB ($29.25)
BB ($38.45)
UTG ($35.85)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
2 folds, Hero raises to $2, Button calls $2, 2 folds.

Flop: ($4.75) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $3.5, Hero calls $3.50.

Turn: ($11.75) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $8, Hero raises to $35.75, Button folds.

Final Pot: $55.50

(ps - save the fold PF please, these are profitable raises given the situations)

orig!naL · #2 06-06-2007, 12:03 PM

your pre-flop play is very bad IMO (especially the 1st). 56s in BB is an easy fold. You're getting yourself into a huge mess here. As played, raise villain's turn bet to $16, lead river for 3/4 pot.

playtitleist · #3 06-06-2007, 12:24 PM

The converter screwed up hand 1 (or I did). I was SB. Anyway, your suggestion is effectively check-raising turn. That's too agressive IMO. Maybe this is a bad example, but I am looking for reason take my line or to not take my line (post flop).

chaide · #4 06-06-2007, 12:36 PM

bet turn in hand one as villain can be in a flush draw

hand two play it as fast as you can from the start to built a big pot and hope villain have an ace

maccamack · #5 06-06-2007, 12:47 PM

I don't like the pre flop raise in hand one or two - you've got a great little hand OOP that could do with seeing a flop multiway. In position these hands are worth raising but not from SB and BB.

In hand one I would definitely lead, if I pre flop raised or not. I also lead turn for $8 or so, leaving you a smaller river bet that is more likely to get call. If you are going to check the turn at least raise it up a little (dare I say min-raise), so your river bet is small enough to get called.

In hand two, I like a lead, 1/2 pot turn, 1/2 pot river. The way you played it, you might as well have shown him your cards. That is not to say that he knows you have a three - you just told him that Ax is miles behind.

I would agree with previous poster than you need to work on your post flop play - the idea with hands like the ones shown is get value not get a fold.

XHitman014 · #6 06-06-2007, 12:56 PM

[ QUOTE ]
The converter screwed up hand 1 (or I did). I was SB. Anyway, your suggestion is effectively check-raising turn. That's too agressive IMO. Maybe this is a bad example, but I am looking for reason take my line or to not take my line (post flop).

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't understand why you wouldn't raise the turn? He could be betting his FD or his TPWK. You have the nuts and want a big pot. Raise the turn to an amount that gets his stack in on the river. By calling, you're effectively allowed him to draw to his flush for free or get away if a scare card comes, in this case a diamond if he doesn't have a flush.

playtitleist · #7 06-06-2007, 01:08 PM

[ QUOTE ]

I would agree with previous poster than you need to work on your post flop play - the idea with hands like the ones shown is get value not get a fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

For sure! I suck post flop. But my goal is to not get a fold, which is why I am afraid the call->agg line that I took here sucks. I am leaving a lot of chips on the table with this line.

For the record, I am not afraid to open-raise any street. I just don't like check-raise in general.