Overbetting: When to use it?

[Jeff76]

All the time I see people overbet shove with AA PF when they are 3bet. This accomplishes stacking KK and not much else, but I see more and more players do it.

[Gobias Ind.]

[ QUOTE ]
Here's an example of overbetting for value- basically I was pretty sure shortie had a a straight and wasn't folding because he was comitted, and the bigger stack either had a straight or he didn't, but he was likely calling/folding regardless of my bet size. I think I had to raise here because a diamond or board pairing could dampen my action, and any raise is going to be threatening given the re-raise already in front of me, so might as well go for it all. Plus, a push has the bonus of looking slightly absurd.

Poker Stars
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
8 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $13
UTG+1: $37.50
MP1: $139.35
MP2: $21.30
CO: $23.95
Button: $17.45
SB: $46.20
Hero: $50

Pre-flop: (8 players) Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, 2 folds, SB calls, Hero checks.

Flop: 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($2, 4 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks.

Turn: T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($2, 4 players)
SB checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $1.75</font>, <font color="#cc0000">UTG+1 raises to $3.5</font>, <font color="#cc0000">MP2 raises to $5.25</font>, SB folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises all-in $49.5</font>, <font color="#cc0000">UTG+1 calls all-in $33.5</font>, <font color="#cc0000">MP2 calls all-in $15.55</font>.
Uncalled bets: $12.5 returned to Hero.

River: 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($80.6, 0 player + 3 all-in - Main pot: $64.4, Sidepot 1: $32.4)


Results:
Final pot: $80.6

[/ QUOTE ]

No offense, but this hand is 100% standard and doesn't illustrate the OP's point one bit. Clearly one of them had the J, possibly QJ as well, and the other had like J,x w/ fl redraw and assumed HE was freerolling you.

[CalledDownLight]

I said my hand was a bad example, but I didn't mean that you all had to post ones where you overbet in really stupid spots too. Sorry for leading y'all down that road.

[Smart Money]

I agree. Yours was a bad example.

But well done for trying.

[Bluegrassplayer]

[ QUOTE ]
I said my hand was a bad example, but I didn't mean that you all had to post ones where you overbet in really stupid spots too. Sorry for leading y'all down that road.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think people have pretty much covered the entire spectrum, so basically it's never good to overbet the pot apparently.

[Jeff76]

[ QUOTE ]
but this hand is 100% standard

[/ QUOTE ]True, but I've seen plenty of players play spots like this differently, so even if its the correct way to play the hand, people miss it. Since people miss it, I figured it'd be hepful to post. If it was unhelpful, then my bad.

[ QUOTE ]
doesn't illustrate the OP's point one bit

[/ QUOTE ]Actually, I just realized that I misread OPs post, so I apologize [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[AlexB182]

[ QUOTE ]
I said my hand was a bad example, but I didn't mean that you all had to post ones where you overbet in really stupid spots too. Sorry for leading y'all down that road.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL!

[Landlord79]

[ QUOTE ]
All the time I see people overbet shove with AA PF when they are 3bet. This accomplishes stacking KK and not much else, but I see more and more players do it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I 3 bet AI w/ AA from the SB last weak against an UTG raiser and got called for 100BBs by AKo. This is 100NL. People just don't expect you to overplay AA like this, as long as you don't do it everytime, it works in good spots.

[Landlord79]

Overbets on the flop were covered here.

Basically, overbets on coordinated flops are people protecting made hands.

[Makonnen]

[ QUOTE ]
I think people have pretty much covered the entire spectrum, so basically it's never good to overbet the pot apparently.

[/ QUOTE ]
So, um, why aren't we all playing pot limit?

I think about this question a lot. If overbetting is bad, or is only good once in a rare while, then why not play PL? If we're playing NL, shouldn't we be taking more advantage of the N part of that?

A lot of the strategy we've all been raised on advocates the classic 2/3 to 3/4 PSB, because it has the advantage of being a good bet size whatever we're trying to accomplish. But I think that in embracing that, we've lost sight of when to risk the overbet. I know that I overbet with what I think is the best hand on the river, and sometimes with air on the river because of that. But flop and turn overbets--which I do live fairly regularly to play a big pot when desired--seem a lot less successful online, so I basically avoid them. I think that's a large leak in my online play.