$11 NLTRN - TPGK 2nd hand

[pokercurious]

He folds first hand, then:

BB: 1,480
Hero (SB): 1,520

Pre-Flop: (30) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (SB)
<font color="red">Hero raises to 60</font>, BB calls 40

Flop: (120) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
BB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets 80</font>, <font color="red">BB raises to 160</font>, Hero calls 80

Turn: (440) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] [ 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ] (2 Players)
<font color="red">BB bets 260</font>, Hero ????

Is he doing this with overs/flush draws enough for a shove to be profitable? I believe the choice here is shove or fold - I can't believe that I could call and get to showdown without getting allin anyway.

Also, I'm not certain that raising to 480ish preflop wouldn't have been better.

Thoughts?

[cabiness42]

I'm more of a beginner, but I do play $11 HU quite a bit, so I'd like to take a shot at this, and I'd love for the experts to tell me why I'm wrong if I'm wrong.

With AJs+ I would re-reaise before the flop, so I wouldn't put him on that. I guess he could have KJs, KQs, or QJs, but those are only three hands you are beating that I might play that way, when he could also have KTo, ATo, or pocket 2s or 3s.

[wrkingtobegreat]

I think pushing is fine here, as lots of players would play a flush draw like this.

[Somekid]

From the looks of it, your opponent could have second pair, or top pair weak kicker or even air and just doesn't believe that you connected with that flop. I've noticed that when I cbet low card flops like this I get check-raised a lot more. So I think shoving the turn would be a good way to play it. On a drier board I might call and hope they bet again on the river.

[HokieGreg]

I think you get more value out of flat-calling the flop and shoving over him on a safe turn (like the 5d).

4-betting the flop you will "usually" only get called or shoved on by hands that beat you or are even money against you (flush draws + one over card).

[waxhax0rs]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm more of a beginner, but I do play $11 HU quite a bit, so I'd like to take a shot at this, and I'd love for the experts to tell me why I'm wrong if I'm wrong.

With AJs+ I would re-reaise before the flop, so I wouldn't put him on that. I guess he could have KJs, KQs, or QJs, but those are only three hands you are beating that I might play that way, when he could also have KTo, ATo, or pocket 2s or 3s.

[/ QUOTE ]

Under most circumstances, thinking of how YOU would play the hand is bad thinking.

[TNixon]

[ QUOTE ]
Under most circumstances, thinking of how YOU would play the hand is bad thinking.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think this is actually by far the biggest mistake that almost all bad players make, and probably quite a few good ones, as well, thinking that their opponent plays like they do.

[cabiness42]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Under most circumstances, thinking of how YOU would play the hand is bad thinking.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think this is actually by far the biggest mistake that almost all bad players make, and probably quite a few good ones, as well, thinking that their opponent plays like they do.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's my starting point, given that this is the second hand against an unknown opponent. As more hands are played, I understand the differences between his play and my play.

[daveT]

^ agreed, that this is the #1 leak I find in all players. As you play more, you will not have to think about this sort of stuff.

[Somekid]

Is it worth it to try to get all-in on the flop here? It seems like there are a lot of possible turn cards that could be really annoying.