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#21
08-30-2007, 02:19 PM
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Re: Honor Systems
[ QUOTE ]
banging strangers is a huge honor system [/ QUOTE ] yeah one night stands are pretty scary if you think about it. i mean... if a chick ever looked in my fridge and saw the body parts... boy would i be in trouble... 
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#22
08-30-2007, 02:56 PM
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Re: Honor Systems
Going to the movies is pretty much honor system. It's pretty easy to go to several movies, see a sold out movie by buying tickets to something else, smuggle people in using ticket stubs, etc. My friend used to go to the credit card machine and buy kids tickets.
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#23
08-30-2007, 03:02 PM
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Re: Honor Systems
I traveled in germany last summer, didn't stamp my ticket. In the beginning I didn't know, after I just continued... I'm all for honor systems and doing the right thing in most situations, that being said, I still cut a lot of corners. I'm pretty sure everyone is like this, I'm pretty sure this "mixed strategy" is probably the best EV strategy if you were going to look at it that way. I've had honors system exams and never cheated, trying to think of other honor systems that I've either ignored or obeyed...
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#24
08-30-2007, 04:08 PM
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Re: Honor Systems
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] You buy a ticket, you stamp it in the machine (to show when you started your journey) and you get on the train/bus/tram. [/ QUOTE ] I never knew this the first time I went and just bought a ticket like all other cities I've been to. I was pretty surprised when a German guy (no uniform or anything) came up to the four of us and asked to see our tickets. We showed him and he forced us off at the next stop and charged us 100 euro as a 'deal'. Apparently the stamping of the ticket is the crucial element of the system... Seemed easy to not only avoid tickets but also to scam money off dumb tourists who didn't know you had to stamp them. [/ QUOTE ] Did he have a badge? If not, you did get scammed.
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#25
08-30-2007, 04:10 PM
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Re: Honor Systems
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] You buy a ticket, you stamp it in the machine (to show when you started your journey) and you get on the train/bus/tram. [/ QUOTE ] I never knew this the first time I went and just bought a ticket like all other cities I've been to. I was pretty surprised when a German guy (no uniform or anything) came up to the four of us and asked to see our tickets. We showed him and he forced us off at the next stop and charged us 100 euro as a 'deal'. Apparently the stamping of the ticket is the crucial element of the system... Seemed easy to not only avoid tickets but also to scam money off dumb tourists who didn't know you had to stamp them. [/ QUOTE ] Did he have a badge? Either way, you got scammed. [/ QUOTE ]
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#26
08-30-2007, 04:11 PM
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Re: Honor Systems
[ QUOTE ]
People have been bred for tens of thousands of years to behave this way, because social life is essentially like a long iterated prisoner's dilemma. The correct strategy is Tit for Tat, or basically, always cooperate unless someone screws you over. Even if you rationally believe that cheating somebody it +EV, you have to ask, "+EV over what time frame?" Cheating as a general strategy is almost always -EV in the long run. Evolution cares about the long run, even if human beings, constrained by time preference, care more about the short run. Human beings generally do not cheat for the same reasons that squirrells gather and bury food months before the winter; in general it's good for them in the long run, even if they can't articulate why. Humans evolved in small groups where antisocial behavior was easily spotted and the consequences of it were dire (death or expulsion, either one of which vastly reduces the likelihood of passing your antisocial genes on to the next generation). Just as people have bred dogs to be friendly and companionable, so too have they bred themselves to the same end. In effect humans, via evolution, have domesticated themselves. [/ QUOTE ] I really liked this explanation. Plus, it gave me the mental image of the psychiatrist from the Sopranos trying to get a squirrel to examine his deep-seated compulsion to bury nuts.
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#27
08-30-2007, 04:48 PM
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Re: Honor Systems
The honor code is very important to Caltech culture. Although there is still cheating, it's pretty rare. The fact that there is so much trust among members of the caltech community is nice cuz you can do things like take home tests, leave your door unlocked, have access to any building on campus, etc. There are graded homeworks where the profs post the solutions online and just trust that you won't look until you finish which I imagine wouldn't work elsewhere.
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#28
08-30-2007, 04:59 PM
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Re: Honor Systems
[ QUOTE ]
The honor code is very important to Caltech culture. Although there is still cheating, it's pretty rare. [/ QUOTE ] What exactly is the evidence for this assertion? Do you just mean that the honor committee hears relatively few cases each semester? From the teaching side of things, such a committee is a huge pain in the ass and thus a pretty strong disincentive for people to report things, so unless the teacher takes that stuff exceptionally seriously or the offense is particularly egregious a lot of stuff probably just slides.
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#29
08-30-2007, 05:26 PM
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Re: Honor Systems
same as everywhere
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#30
08-30-2007, 06:43 PM
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Re: Honor Systems
[ QUOTE ]
same as everywhere [/ QUOTE ] Right, so where is the evidence for all of these assertions that the honor system has this huge cultural impact that everybody takes seriously? If you're the kind of person who takes it seriously, then it's fairly unlikely that people are going to have conversations about their cheating habits with you. That you sign a paper at the beginning of your college career and people talk about it a ton doesn't necessarily mean that it's widely respected, or that the presence of an honor code is making anybody honest except those who would be anyway.
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