Strange Question for ACists and libertarians

[Copernicus]

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I voted option 1. I love the national anthem. I think it's very moving. At the time it was penned the banner represented the fight against oppressive government, and was not a symbol of it. That's how I interpret it.

I will NOT, however, pledge allegiance to a [censored] piece of cloth. I can't even understand how a patriotic statist can buy into that. WTF? It's ridiculous.

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I used to think the exact same way.

I now cry a little inside when I hear about the land of the free and home of the brave. Those terms have been so bastardized, it's just sad. We as a people have squandered such promise to be an example of all that can be good in the world. No other society in history had the opportunity we did as the last superpower standing, and we flat out blew it, and are blowing it more every day. Watching my fellow countrymen sing those words almost makes me angry that they can be so naive. (Actually, many aren't naive at all, they know full well what they're supporting and don't mind it one bit; e.g., Copernicus and FelixN.)

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There is a big difference between "not minding it one bit" and recgonizing that the real world sometimes involves compromising in order to survive. Don't put words in my mouth or assume you know what I think.

[VarlosZ]

Can I answer? I'm not AC, but I am a civil libertarian who thinks that patriotism tends to be harmful in the long run.

Anyway, I take off my cap and stand quietly out of respect for my fellow fans. Many of them feel strongly about the anthem and our country, and it would be very rude of me to offend them. Ditto for church services.

[Copernicus]

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Can I answer? I'm not AC, but I am a civil libertarian who thinks that patriotism tends to be harmful in the long run.

Anyway, I take off my cap and stand quietly out of respect for my fellow fans. Many of them feel strongly about the anthem and our country, and it would be very rude of me to offend them. Ditto for church services.

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Patriotism is the fabric that holds a nation together and unites people that do not agree with each other 100% of the time and binds them to a common cause. Lack of patriotism is the reason Congress looks more like Parliament than it does the Congresses of the 60s through 80s and the reason that selfish interests trump the national interest. It is isnt patriotism itself that can be harmful in the long run, it is allowing patriotism to replace rational thought. One doesnt necessarily lead to the other.

[VarlosZ]

Patriotism has its upsides, but I feel that it encourages people to give the needs of their fellow citizens more weight than those of foreigners, which may lead to a sub-optimal allocation of resources. Among our less than thoughtful countrymen, patriotism becomes a culturally acceptable mask for xenophobia and ignorance. Patriotism usually implies that one's own country is particularly excellent or deserving of praise, which itself necessarily implies that other countries are less than excellent. This line of thinking makes it easier for citizens of all countries to rationalize war with other peoples.

Now that we understand each other, [/hijack].

[Borodog]

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Patriotism has its upsides, but I feel that it encourages people to give the needs of their fellow citizens more weight than those of foreigners, which may lead to a sub-optimal allocation of resources. Among our less than thoughtful countrymen, patriotism becomes a culturally acceptable mask for xenophobia and ignorance. Patriotism usually implies that one's own country is particularly excellent or deserving of praise, which itself necessarily implies that other countries are less than excellent. This line of thinking makes it easier for citizens of all countries to rationalize war with other peoples.


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I agree with your analysis completely, which means I fail to see the upside.

[The Don]

lmao. Option 2 ftw.

[owsley]

lol, I am going to start doing a *coughcough [censored] the troops coughcough* as people are standing up to start singing, hopefully I can get the timing down to where they realize what I said but dont have time to respond, then forget about it in the 2 minutes of singing.

[Borodog]

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lol, I am going to start doing a *coughcough [censored] the troops coughcough* as people are standing up to start singing, hopefully I can get the timing down to where they realize what I said but dont have time to respond, then forget about it in the 2 minutes of singing.

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Make sure your insurance is up to date.

[owsley]

It might also be a nice segway to a, "Oh I'm sorry, I thought this was America!"

[BCPVP]

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I voted option 1. I love the national anthem. I think it's very moving. At the time it was penned the banner represented the fight against oppressive government, and was not a symbol of it. That's how I interpret it.

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QFT. I usually get goosebumps towards the end.