Stars PLO8 Tournament $5000 Guaranteed

Omaha8sPoker · #1 07-20-2007, 12:03 AM

I was the overwhelming chip leader in this tourney with 7 tables to go...Got chopped down into the middle of the pack when I tried to isolate a short stack with QQ98 against a middish stack on the final 2 table bubble (he couldn't laydown AK27, unsooted after limping in the CO)...

Mananged to chip back up to 5th outta 13 and then this hand came up...Villian is a good tourney player, who had raised the previous 2 hands...

PokerStars Game #11030738662: Tournament #55429433, $20+$2 Omaha Hi/Lo Pot Limit - Level XV (2000/4000) - 2007/07/19 - 23:20:44 (ET)
Table '55429433 2' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: VILLIAN (101234 in chips)
Seat 2: DT_Girl (113016 in chips)
Seat 5: HERO (88399 in chips)
Seat 7: lock1andload (39191 in chips)
Seat 8: Scotty (10284 in chips)
Seat 9: Jinnu (16606 in chips)
Jinnu: posts small blind 2000
VILLIAN: posts big blind 4000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to HERO [Ah Jh Jd 5d]
DT_Girl: folds
HERO: raises 8500 to 12500
lock1andload: folds
Scotty: folds
Jinnu: folds
VILLIAN: raises 27000 to 39500
HERO: ???

prodonkey · #2 07-20-2007, 12:12 AM

I ship it in. you're double suited.. you've got a big pair, an ace, a wheel card.

jcx · #3 07-20-2007, 01:29 AM

There's a good chance you are in big trouble here. Even if villian doesn't have an overpair but something like As 2s 4c Qd you are a dog. You still have a reasonable amount of chips if you fold. I'd wait for a better spot.

Borys313 · #4 07-20-2007, 08:55 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I was the overwhelming chip leader in this tourney with 7 tables to go...Got chopped down into the middle of the pack when I tried to isolate a short stack with QQ98 against a middish stack on the final 2 table bubble (he couldn't laydown AK27, unsooted after limping in the CO)...

Mananged to chip back up to 5th outta 13 and then this hand came up...Villian is a good tourney player, who had raised the previous 2 hands...

PokerStars Game #11030738662: Tournament #55429433, $20+$2 Omaha Hi/Lo Pot Limit - Level XV (2000/4000) - 2007/07/19 - 23:20:44 (ET)
Table '55429433 2' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: VILLIAN (101234 in chips)
Seat 2: DT_Girl (113016 in chips)
Seat 5: HERO (88399 in chips)
Seat 7: lock1andload (39191 in chips)
Seat 8: Scotty (10284 in chips)
Seat 9: Jinnu (16606 in chips)
Jinnu: posts small blind 2000
VILLIAN: posts big blind 4000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to HERO [Ah Jh Jd 5d]
DT_Girl: folds
HERO: raises 8500 to 12500
lock1andload: folds
Scotty: folds
Jinnu: folds
VILLIAN: raises 27000 to 39500
HERO: ???

[/ QUOTE ]

Any hand with a low potential is even money with the greatest high only hand when it comes to pushing.

For example KKQJ is 43:57 dog vs 2578, so your isoraise was just spewing.

And berating someone for not laying down A27K is just absurd its the second best fliping hand right sfter AA2x, seriously would you lay down KK in holdem preflop.

On bubble the situation is really tough and close, if you think you can steal some pots later maybe fold.
But if villian is loose just make a stand, you cant wait forever and winning the hand and geting the command of the table would be tremeandous on bubble.

Omaha8sPoker · #5 07-20-2007, 09:13 AM

LOL, yeah I think its a really optimal play late in a tourney to open limp from the cutoff with AK27, unsooted and then when the chip leader comes over the top of you to push when you are on the bubble...Now THERE'S a HUGELY +EV play!!! LOL...

But honestly I could give two s hits about his play, I'm worried about my play, not his...

Borys313 · #6 07-20-2007, 11:33 AM

[ QUOTE ]
LOL, yeah I think its a really optimal play late in a tourney to open limp from the cutoff with AK27, unsooted and then when the chip leader comes over the top of you to push when you are on the bubble...Now THERE'S a HUGELY +EV play!!! LOL...

But honestly I could give two s hits about his play, I'm worried about my play, not his...

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes thats what I would do, racing against the leader is a good idea because he will open very light.

And your play is pretty marginal, isolation plays work alot better in holdem bacause in omaha there are far more tempting hands to race with for villians.

And the AJJ5 hand is a difficult one, very read dependent.
Whatever you did with it it was probably the right choice.

Omaha8sPoker · #7 07-20-2007, 11:39 AM

Sorry Borys didn't mean to get on you for your view...I agree with your point that the iso in PLO8 really doesn't work that well because the hand values are so close, but I really think it's stupid as hell to limp-reraise with a hand like AK72, unsooted (especially in the cutoff and especially when you are opening the pot)...I thought he was weak as hell for open-limping in the CO...I was thinking he had something like 234x, 4567, or something like that...I wouldn't look to "trap" anybody with by feigning weakness with a hand like AK27, unsooted...If I had a middish stack there I would look to force the action on the chip leader than vice-versa...Late in these things, I want to take down hands in PLO8 without having to see a flop and build a chip stack that way, I don't want to have to rely on getting lucky in a 50:50 spot...

I'll post what I did and results this evening sometime...Should be interesting for discussion...

bbartlog · #8 07-20-2007, 11:44 AM

I think this is one of the rare cases where it's correct to fold to the repot. Probably 90-95% of the time when I raise preflop I'm willing to call and/or get it all in, but this particular hand is problematic because it's kind of weak both ways. It's unfortunately not that hard for villain to have a hand like AA4x that dominates you, and your hand isn't likely to be easy to play postflop either, so position won't help that much. I think it's a fold.

franknagaijr · #9 07-20-2007, 12:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I was the overwhelming chip leader in this tourney with 7 tables to go...Got chopped down into the middle of the pack when I tried to isolate a short stack with QQ98 against a middish stack on the final 2 table bubble (he couldn't laydown AK27, unsooted after limping in the CO)...

Mananged to chip back up to 5th outta 13 and then this hand came up...Villian is a good tourney player, who had raised the previous 2 hands...

[/ QUOTE ]

Please start a new thread on the QQ98 hand, if you feel like it.

Villain open-raised the two prior hands from late position, or villain re-raised with garbage? If the former, there's no reason to think that the villain doesn't have a real hand here, reraising an EP raise.

I don't hate a push here, but AJJ5 is not really a premium hand by any standard. It may be in the top 30% of hands, but Villains reraise indicates you're behind here. In this exact spot, since flat calling is the worst of both worlds, folding is not ridiculous.

What do the tourney players think of an EP limp with this hand? If raised, flat calling would be viable, looking for a 2 or a J, or a flush draw on the flop?

If the flop is 26T rainbow with two backdoor flushes after a limp-call, would you get your chips in first?

Omaha8sPoker · #10 07-20-2007, 12:28 PM

I don't have the HHs in front of me at the moment, but I think the villian had raised when he was either SB/Button or Button/Cutoff...

And that is the problem with this hand, it's seducatively good looking (at least in my mind) when you are only playing 6 handed because you have the A-wheel, decently big pair, and its double suited...There are a combination of factors that made playing this hand after this repop difficult...