PLO8 ($200) UB - Just A Check-Up...

Omaha8sPoker · #1 07-17-2007, 02:23 PM

From a session last nite on UB...Standard arrangement of donks with a good player or 2 mixed in...

Seat 0 $47.
Seat 1 $136 .40. (BUTTON)
HERO - Seat 2 $360 .05. (SB)
Seat 3 $179 .70. (BB)
Seat 4 $128 .10.
Seat 5 $489 .35.
Seat 6 $276 .35.
Seat 7 $238 .
Seat 8 $166 .
Seat 9 $238 .20

HERO is dealt: A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 10 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Seat 4 CALLS $2
Seat 5 FOLDS
Seat 6 CALLS $2
Seat 7 FOLDS
Seat 8 RAISES to $4
Seat 9 CALLS $4
Seat 0 CALLS $4
Seat 1 CALLS $4
HERO CALLS
Seat 3 FOLDS
Seat 4 CALLS $2
Seat 6 CALLS $2

FLOP: POT ($25) 7 PLAYERS

9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

HERO CHECKS
Seat 4 CHECKS
Seat 6 BETS $6
Seat 8 CALLS $6
Seat 9 CALLS $6
Seat 0 FOLDS
Seat 1 CALLS $6
HERO CALLS $6
Seat 4 CALLS $6

For a nanosecond I thought of raising here, but OOP and with that many callers in the pot I didn't think a raise would get many people off of their hands and I didn't want to build a big pot OOP with just top pair and the nut low draw...

TURN: POT ($61) 6 PLAYERS

10 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

HERO CHECKS
Seat 4 CHECKS
Seat 6 BETS $10
Seat 8 CALLS $10
Seat 9 CALLS $10
Seat 1 RAISES TO $116
HERO ?????????

Due to the great aggressive betting of $10 into a $61 pot and a few callers, the pot has now bloated to $207 for the HERO to call $116 cold with his big draw...

READ: I know I'm up against 86 or maybe J8 and I think anybody with 1/2 a brain should know that...I'd be willing to bet my net worth on it...And if I'm only up against a worse 2 pair then I'm fine, but I only think that will happen 1 in a million times...

What should HERO do here?
Raise
Call
Fold

I'm sure the decision here is pretty trivial, but if it is trivial like I think it is...Did I make any other mistakes in the hand??

Jorge10 · #2 07-17-2007, 03:01 PM

Bet 20 bucks on the flop, but as played raise the flop bet. They seem to be pretty weak. I know a pair of 9's doesnt look to hot, but it looks even worse against 5 people than it does against say 1-3 that would call the raise.

Edit: Insta call the turn you have a monster draw. Nut low draw, full house draw, nut flush draw. Not much of a decision.

Omaha8sPoker · #3 07-17-2007, 03:21 PM

Yeah the flop, I thought to myself I'll peel and see what comes off if a good one comes off I'll raise...And when the T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] peeled off I was like Yahtzee!!! and was waiting to put in a massive check raise and then this guy beats me to the punch...To say I felt sick before making my decision is an understatement...

bbartlog · #4 07-17-2007, 03:40 PM

You have to call. I hate this kind of spot where you have some sort of crappy 35-40% pot equity but have to call anyway because you're getting 2:1. If you didn't have the four outs to a FH to go with your NLD/NFD then folding wouldn't be a big mistake.

I also think you should have bet the flop. It is kind of scary with so many opponents, but NLD plus top pair is good enough to lead out...

Omaha8sPoker · #5 07-17-2007, 04:10 PM

See this is where I get stuck and it is not a tool that I have in my arsenal as crappy as that sounds for as much as I've played...

THE LEAD OUT...That has just never been a play I have needed/used in the games that I have played in and I think it is pretty bad that I don't have it...

My question is, doesn't a lead out for like $20-pot just bloat the pot OOP?? I know I have a pretty decent hand, but if I bet $20 and a few people call then it gives odds to others to call to make their hand against me...Wouldn't a check-raise be a better play in this spot...

BTW, I'll reveal my line on the turn tonite although I really don't think it matters for the discussion that is being had at this point...

tvta · #6 07-17-2007, 04:31 PM

[ QUOTE ]
My question is, doesn't a lead out for like $20-pot just bloat the pot OOP??

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes it does, but thats the disadvantage of being OOP. The 20$ bet I see as mainly an info bet leading into multiple players. what is crucial here is that you have no idea what to do on the turn yet (or on the flop given you are raised) and you must completely reevaluate with whatever action you get - being first to act sort of makes me frantic in situations like this and bad decisions result from being rushed. there are so many different cards that the turn can bring, each with its own separate action for your hand (i find that 10s very interesting). the 20$ finds out if you are against any monster made hand that would turn a disaster into an easy flop fold. but in reality i have played hands like this before and i dont blame you for not wanting to lead out into such a large field.

Omaha8sPoker · #7 07-17-2007, 04:58 PM

You're telling me that the 10 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] was interesting!!! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

If I played it as suggested with the lead into the field and just got flat called in a few places I think I woulda fired pot on that card...Granted I woulda wanted to a low spade or another 9, but that is probably one of the better "brick" cards I could hit as it gives me the NFD and top two at the same time...

niss · #8 07-17-2007, 05:13 PM

In my opinion, there is nothing wrong with bloating a pot when you have a good hand. Play your big hands big.

Now, of course, it's better to be in LP than EP in a big pot. But I think when you have a good hand EP, you need to get an idea of what you're playing against. If you do not pot bet the flop, you wind up possibly losing a whole lot more had you bet the flop and narrowed the field to a particular range of hands that you may be able to better anticipate when a player makes a move like this player did on the turn. If you're not going to bet the pot on a flop like this, or if you're going to play every hand but AA23 weak-tight from up front, then you should consider almost never playing a hand from early position.

Omaha8sPoker · #9 07-17-2007, 05:30 PM

Niss, what do you mean by better anticipate what this player did? I'm 99.999999999999999999% sure of what he has so I just have to figure out my equity vs. the straight...

Interesting take of playing this weak-tight...I didn't think that playing top pair here (I know with the redraw) is strong enough to be playing OOP very aggressively...But I guess what you are trying to get at is that I should bet to find out where I am...

niss · #10 07-17-2007, 06:08 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Niss, what do you mean by better anticipate what this player did? I'm 99.999999999999999999% sure of what he has so I just have to figure out my equity vs. the straight...

[/ QUOTE ]

It's mainly a general comment about why you should lead out.

But about this specific hand, what if the guy that raised has A-4-8-J? For $6 and a bunch of callers, sure what the hell. But if you led out -- from EP -- for the pot, would he play?