Talk to me about AJo from various positions.

[emerson]

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On cold calling -- my view is that if you are not prepared to consider a raise with a hand dont call. No good player even considers a raise with AJ - ergo no call.

Similarly if the UTG PFR is soooo tight that you dont want to raise AQ, fold it.

If others have already cold called it is of course a different story and AJo is still a fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know about that. From the cutoff AJ is certainly a raise first in, and also a raise vs a limper. There are some merits to not raising with AJ from early position. But to say that no good player considers raising with AJ is a big stretch.

[emerson]

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Assuming you're playing a typical mid-limit game at a place we'll call Broccoli Pete's, AJo is a fold to an UTG raise.

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Understood, many thanks. I now see that at the main game at Lentil Ron's, AJo must clearly be considered a major leak in the face of aggression. Id consider (consider, mind you) cold calling in late position at one of the must-move games simply because the retard factor is so very strong there.

Btw the hand in question took place at a 30-60 lhe game at Oaks, and really forced me to reconsider my whole "call it down in case they are overplaying a big pair" dictum in the face of preflop aggression. Against limpers I think maybe it holds water against people who limped in with AXs and think Im calling down middle pair, but Im starting to wonder if even that is a leak in the long run...

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You need to get rid of the "call" mentality. Good players almost never call preflop raises with any hand. You generally raise or fold. The only exceptions are hands that play well in multi-way pots, maybe KQs or AJs. Any other hand you would consider playing against a raise when nobody else has called before you is a re-raise. Even against the loose retard, raise or fold. You don't want to pay two bets to play AJ in a multi-way pot.

[ACPlayer]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
On cold calling -- my view is that if you are not prepared to consider a raise with a hand dont call. No good player even considers a raise with AJ - ergo no call.

Similarly if the UTG PFR is soooo tight that you dont want to raise AQ, fold it.

If others have already cold called it is of course a different story and AJo is still a fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know about that. From the cutoff AJ is certainly a raise first in, and also a raise vs a limper. There are some merits to not raising with AJ from early position. But to say that no good player considers raising with AJ is a big stretch.

[/ QUOTE ]

I meant cold calling a raiser. By my criteria I am folding a AJ against a EP raiser, a rock raiser in MP, 3 betting a maniac, etc. Note that I am not cold calling.

The idea is -- lets say you are considering calling a raise preflop, ask yourself "Can I raise in this situation with this hand, and against this player" if the answer is YES then raise, if the answer is NO fold. Note that you may choose to cold call the raiser but that should be only for meta-game IMO and not the basic strategy.

[swope]

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You need to get rid of the "call" mentality. Good players almost never call preflop raises with any hand. You generally raise or fold. The only exceptions are hands that play well in multi-way pots, maybe KQs or AJs. Any other hand you would consider playing against a raise when nobody else has called before you is a re-raise. Even against the loose retard, raise or fold. You don't want to pay two bets to play AJ in a multi-way pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

extremely insightful, many thanks.

[emerson]

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[ QUOTE ]


You need to get rid of the "call" mentality. Good players almost never call preflop raises with any hand. You generally raise or fold. The only exceptions are hands that play well in multi-way pots, maybe KQs or AJs. Any other hand you would consider playing against a raise when nobody else has called before you is a re-raise. Even against the loose retard, raise or fold. You don't want to pay two bets to play AJ in a multi-way pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

extremely insightful, many thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Post flop in a heads up pot:

Let's say that, for what ever reason, you find yourself in with an Ace and a not so great kicker. An ace flops and your opponent bets. What do you do?

There are two different ways to handle this. One way is to just call all the way down. The other way is to raise them on the flop. If they play back at you again, assume you are outkicked and throw it away. Each method has pluses and minuses.

Against aggressive opponents who will make continuation bets and not stop I may check call to the end. This keeps them betting if they have another big pocket pair. They often assume you will play back at them with any ace and will thus keep betting if you are just calling. But paying off all the way with a bad ace can be expensive. Raising on the flop and folding if they play back is cheaper, but you risk getting bluffed off of the best hand.

[ssmallz]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


You need to get rid of the "call" mentality. Good players almost never call preflop raises with any hand. You generally raise or fold. The only exceptions are hands that play well in multi-way pots, maybe KQs or AJs. Any other hand you would consider playing against a raise when nobody else has called before you is a re-raise. Even against the loose retard, raise or fold. You don't want to pay two bets to play AJ in a multi-way pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

extremely insightful, many thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Post flop in a heads up pot:

Let's say that, for what ever reason, you find yourself in with an Ace and a not so great kicker. An ace flops and your opponent bets. What do you do?

There are two different ways to handle this. One way is to just call all the way down. The other way is to raise them on the flop. If they play back at you again, assume you are outkicked and throw it away. Each method has pluses and minuses.

Against aggressive opponents who will make continuation bets and not stop I may check call to the end. This keeps them betting if they have another big pocket pair. They often assume you will play back at them with any ace and will thus keep betting if you are just calling. But paying off all the way with a bad ace can be expensive. Raising on the flop and folding if they play back is cheaper, but you risk getting bluffed off of the best hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Calling down is the superior play most of the time. There is very little benefit to raising at any point in the hand and most of the time it just leads to problems and you risk letting yourself get outplayed. Calldown in position and bet if checked to.

As to AJo in the bb, pretty easy call against an UTG if he's fairly aggro (99+, ATs+, AJo+, KQs+) if he's tight and will not raise the lower pairs and weaker Axs then you should toss it. The key to playing this hand is to not lose to much when your behind while letting him bluff or bet a worse hand when ahead. You can accomplish this by cc'ing the whole way down.

[emerson]

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Calling down is the superior play most of the time. There is very little benefit to raising at any point in the hand and most of the time it just leads to problems and you risk letting yourself get outplayed. Calldown in position and bet if checked to.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. I'm feeling I played poorly in a hand today. UTG+1 open raised, all folded to me in the BB. I called with A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. The flop was Ace, rag, rag. I check raised the flop and got worried when he called. I check folded the turn. Weak. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

I'll go back to my old way. Bet out on the flop, call if raised. Check call to showdown. Perhaps check call on the flop wouldn't be bad either.

[sternroolz]

[ QUOTE ]
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Calling down is the superior play most of the time. There is very little benefit to raising at any point in the hand and most of the time it just leads to problems and you risk letting yourself get outplayed. Calldown in position and bet if checked to.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. I'm feeling I played poorly in a hand today. UTG+1 open raised, all folded to me in the BB. I called with A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. The flop was Ace, rag, rag. I check raised the flop and got worried when he called. I check folded the turn. Weak. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

I'll go back to my old way. Bet out on the flop, call if raised. Check call to showdown. Perhaps check call on the flop wouldn't be bad either.

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I've got a further question about this.....

The game I play in...the Commerce $20-40 for the most part. There are very few players that raise pf in such a small range that makes it unprofitable to play just about any A9+ or Axs in the big blind. So I generally call real light, and I generally 3 bet A9s+ and A10o+ when heads up, no matter the position of the pf raiser. This is of course, player dependant, but most of the players are huge idiots and I don't think playing in this manner is incorrect against them. Many play really bad and will continue to push hands like pocket 3's even after high cards come out. So lots of extra bets come my way post flop, except when they get lucky and hit their 2 outer on the turn or river.

Problem is this...my default play when I call Axs out of the bb is to donk flops. I donk with a ton of other hands also, including flopped trips...just about every time. There are a very few times I check call. In those very few check/call instances, the turn checks through a TON. How do I stop this? Can I donk safe turns after check calling flops? I hate doing this because I always feel like I am getting set up for a raise from the other player...like playing in this manner allows the other player to make a play on me. But I hate giving the free card. And it leaves me in a horrible position on the river also. Bleah. This situation only comes up onces in a while....I still haven't figured out a decent way to deal with it.

[bakku]

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There are a very few times I check call. In those very few check/call instances, the turn checks through a TON. How do I stop this?

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is this a serious question? in case it is..if you stop checking the turn the turn will stop getting checked through.

[emerson]

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Ive lost some substantial pots recently by calling down AJ on an Axx flop only to find out I was up against AQ or AK, occasionally slow played pf or limped in bad position.

Classic example of me not being able to get out of the way; AJ in position against a pre-flop raiser, folded to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

While you didn't ask about AQ offsuit in this position, and most know to fold AJ here, AQ is kind of interesting when you look at the numbers. With AQ you should 3 bet to isolate if nobody has called and try to isolate, even if you think you will be an underdog to his range as the dead money from the blinds with create positive ev. This will be the case even if his range is like: AA, KK, QQ, JJ, TT, AK, AQ, and AJs. If the total rake and tip total .3 small bets, then driving out the blinds after you three bet creates a 7.2 bet pot to which you've contributed only 41.66%. A hand with 42% equity vs his range will be profitable long term. Now, if a couple of people have cold called the raiser before it gets to you, consider 3 betting or folding. 3 bet only if you are pretty sure you can drive out the big blind. If he calls, even with a hand that is only in the top 50%, you will have a losing situation. If you can succeed in driving out the blinds the dead money overlay makes AQ profitable.

With AJ and no other callers, as in the case you describe, 3 betting and driving out the blinds would be profitable if AJ & KQ were known to be part of the raiser's range for raising, at least according to what Poker Stove is telling me. With 1.2 small bets of dead money as an overlay, AJ offsuit, heads up vs the raiser, will be profitable if his range is: AA, KK, QQ, JJ, TT, 99, AK, AQ, AJ, ATs,A9s and KQ. (but again, only if the BB folds)

If you are playing a game where the small blind is two thirds, then there are more hands that profit from 3 betting the early raiser from late position when nobody else has called as the dead money overlay is greater. But in games where the blinds almost always defend, even when it has been 3 bet, you have to be much more selective as it is the dead money overlay that makes the entire thing profitable.