IWTSTH drama, misreads - warning: long no moral to story

[Gonso]

Ok, I'm in the box dealing a 2/5 NLHE game. There's pretty decent three-way action in this hand, and the pot is around $700-$800 going to the river. A spade comes off makes a flush possible, but there had been heavy action since the flop (which was KTT).

First player to act (who has been leading the whole hand) makes a smallish raise of $150, and as he does he says that he wants to see all hands if he gets called by both players, and instructs me not to let them muck.

[I never liked IWTSTH myself FTR, but this was the only time it happened this down. The guy who requested it and the middle guy are weekend semi-regulars, so maybe they do it now and then and are both fine.

Middle player goes into the tank and eventually calls. Last player to act has been a pretty nice guy to this point but is very new to the game and isn't playing well (or doing well). I'll call him New Guy. He shrugs, thinks for a second, and calls.

1st player repeats his request to see the other hands again and tables his AT for a three of a kind. The next guy kinda nods, obviously expecting to be beat, says "good bet", and shows the guy QT, and I lock his hand up.

New Guy though, he says he can't beat it but doesn't flip over the cards and is thinking about whatever. After a couple seconds I ask him to please table his hand, but he gets a "huh, what?" look and and starts asking why and so on (there hadn't been any IWTSTH requests at this table on any prior hands).

He was asking why he had to show, probably never having heard of the rule ("no one had to show before", etc.) and you could see he was getting a little defensive about showing. I tell the guy he is required to table the hand because of the request, politely, and as I am explaining the rule, he cuts me off and calls to the floor standing over a nearby table (he isn't even familiar with the term "floor" he's so new calling him "sir" and "supervisor").

As this is happening a young hispanic guy (not in the hand) lets out this impatient/aggravated breath and a second later he yells "here" at New Guy, then takes (literally takes) the guy's cards and flips them over. I see KJ and call out two pair, and look up to explain to the floor what just happened. Rigth then the left side of the table mumbles and suddenly just goes nuts - it just like EXPLODED into noise and gasps and pointing.

I look down and sure enough, the guy's cards are both spades and he's sitting on the flush, I had mis-read the hand and missed the flush (dumb error but I wasn't looking for a winning hand). ANyway there's commotion everywhere, and I literally have to yell to quiet the table down and it took both me and the floor yelling to get the table quiet enough to talk. I arrange the flush to show it as the winning hand and read it correctly.

I explain everything briefly to the floor and again to the PR manager who walks up, and I'm told to lock up the AT (which I do as fast as I possibly can), and push the pot to New Guy.

Now it's IWTSTH guy who's just livid - he kept repeating that 'he specifically said he wants to fold and not show.' (Which New Guy did say, but only after he had called the river bet and there was no more action). I mean I expect him to start throwing swings, he's red and half-shouting about everything here. Then he starts with 'he never tabled his hand' (which is technically true I guess, since another player did it) and everything else. Obviously though cards speak and there was no real reason New Guy wouldn't get the pot.

After semi-yelling at everyone from PR manager to Hispanic Guy, they eventually pull him aside and calm him down a little bit. After a few he comes to cash out, now a little bit calmer, but you could see he still wasn't 100%. He knew the cards speak deal, but I think the big thing to him is the guy refused to show.

My issue here that I'm a little fuzzy with was whether Hispanic Guy was out of line or not.

[HOWMANY]

Of course he was out of line, he touched another player's cards. I'm pretty sure they cut your arm off for that [censored] in some places.

[Gonso]

Cliff notes:

Regular: IWTSTH
New Guy: No
Hispanic Guy: I grab New Guy's cards and show
Dealer: Regular wins
Rest of Table: No! New Guy has flush and wins!
Floor, Poker Room Manager: WTF?
Dealer: New Guy wins
Poker Room Manager: Pay New Guy
Regular: No, he didn't show, he said fold, he never tabled his own hand himself.
Poker Room Manager: Come here, Regular
Regular: I'm leaving

[Gonso]

[ QUOTE ]
Of course he was out of line, he touched another player's cards. I'm pretty sure they cut your arm off for that [censored] in some places.

[/ QUOTE ]

What I mean is, what should be the actual penalty for this? I'd never had this happen. Nothing was done and I wonder what should have happened, aside from cutting the guy's arm off.

It didn't influence the outcome of anything as far as I'm concerned here, what rule would apply here?

[nubs]

There is actually a moral to the story. Don't use the the IWTSTH rule.

[pokerswami]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Of course he was out of line, he touched another player's cards. I'm pretty sure they cut your arm off for that [censored] in some places.

[/ QUOTE ]

What I mean is, what should be the actual penalty for this? I'd never had this happen. Nothing was done and I wonder what should have happened, aside from cutting the guy's arm off.

It didn't influence the outcome of anything as far as I'm concerned here, what rule would apply here?

[/ QUOTE ]

If he isn't someone whom you believe has knowledge of cardroom rules and proper cardroom etiquette, then he needs to have what he did wrong explained to him and be warned that he faces a potential penalty if he does it again.

If he's been a trouble-maker in the past, then he needs a lecture and some kind of penalty.

[goofball]

regular is a [censored]. He does realize that when he requests to see the hand it's live no matter what new guys says right?

People who actively try to win the pot with the worst hand at showdown are scummy.

[IvanXDurham]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm pretty sure they cut your arm off for that [censored] in some places.

[/ QUOTE ]

Places like Hispaniola. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

[FatalError]

one thing about IWTSTH is that if you had the winning hand and ask to see it, the dealer doesn't kill the hand first. If the dealer turns over a winner you lose

thats why you never ask

[TexRef]

AHAHAHAHAHA! Karma's a bitch Mr. IWTSTH!

He got what he deserved. What kind of ass bets and immediately tells the dealer that he wants to see the other players' hands if they call and muck?

D-bag move that ended up getting him what he deserved!