5/10 big draw - How to play it? - Page 2

TripleH68 · #11 10-23-2006, 06:12 PM

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Almost nobody is 3-betting preflop and folding to a single flop bet so you've got very little fold equity here. Besides that flop gave you a nice value on your hand, you might even be ahead with your pair - what better time to extract bets from worse hands knowing almost for certain your opponent is going to bet if checked to?

I believe a flop check-raise followed by a turn lead gives you both the best value and the best folding equity.

If you're raised on the turn you can call and check-fold the river UI imo.

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Excellent reply.

Is that your dog? What happened the old avatar? I can't look at your name without seeing that image in my mind. Funny.

aes14 · #12 10-23-2006, 06:21 PM

1) If you just started limit holdem I'm not sure why you jumped into 5/10.

2) Fold pre-flop without reads. Ring game 10-handed this is not a stealing hand unless blinds are folding 75 - 90% of hands.

3) Since you did raise PLAY THE [censored] HAND. you are in position. He bets, you raise and im sorry but if he 3 bets you have to cap. Don't blame me, you decided to steal with 52s. Hopefully the cap can get you a free card on turn and you can fold the river UI. You put yourself in this situation...play the hand.

aes14 · #13 10-23-2006, 06:24 PM

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Why is it better to c/r the flop instead of leading? IMO, it is better to lead for the fold equity, plus if he raises I'm putting the same amount in as a c/r. I've got a good enough hand to go to the river anyways, but I'd prefer to take the pot down now than having to hit to win.

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Check raising has much more fold equity. Trust me. Either on the check raise or when you lead the turn after he calls.

MoreWineII · #14 10-23-2006, 06:57 PM

It's "our dog" yeah, and I'm not responsible for the pink collar...

Stormie just kinda went away, it was hosted somewhere and now it's not so I changed. They still have Storm Shadow GI Joe figures in the stores btw, I saw one the other day and he was much awesomer than when I was little.

Fat Nicky · #15 10-23-2006, 07:01 PM

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3) Since you did raise PLAY THE [censored] HAND. you are in position. He bets, you raise and im sorry but if he 3 bets you have to cap. Don't blame me, you decided to steal with 52s. Hopefully the cap can get you a free card on turn and you can fold the river UI. You put yourself in this situation...play the hand.

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we don't have position here, we raised from the CO and the button 3-bet.

I agree with those who say to c/r the flop and bet the turn

aes14 · #16 10-23-2006, 10:47 PM

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3) Since you did raise PLAY THE [censored] HAND. you are in position. He bets, you raise and im sorry but if he 3 bets you have to cap. Don't blame me, you decided to steal with 52s. Hopefully the cap can get you a free card on turn and you can fold the river UI. You put yourself in this situation...play the hand.

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we don't have position here, we raised from the CO and the button 3-bet.

I agree with those who say to c/r the flop and bet the turn

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LOL I am telling him to check raise..."He bets, your raise..."

spex x · #17 10-23-2006, 11:50 PM

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1) If you just started limit holdem I'm not sure why you jumped into 5/10.

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I'm rich.

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2) Fold pre-flop without reads. Ring game 10-handed this is not a stealing hand unless blinds are folding 75 - 90% of hands.

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Yeah, this is the kind of thing that I don't really know. In a NL game, I'd try to steal with a very wide variety of hands. But in the limit games, I didn't realize that I had to be so much more selective with my stealing hands. I hopefully won't end up in this position again.

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3) Since you did raise PLAY THE [censored] HAND. you are in position. He bets, you raise and im sorry but if he 3 bets you have to cap. Don't blame me, you decided to steal with 52s. Hopefully the cap can get you a free card on turn and you can fold the river UI. You put yourself in this situation...play the hand.

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Well, I was OOP to the button here, but I get your point. I was just curious about how to extract the most value from the hand. And it looks like c/r the flop with a turn lead is the nuts. Again, coming from NL, I tend to want to lead into this flop to put the other guy to the test. But obviously in limit, this isn't the way to go.

somapopper · #18 10-24-2006, 04:47 AM

You don't have to be that much more selective with your steal hands from the CO, but just don't play the absolute crap like 52s.

from the CO against unknowns I'm stealing with somethinig like: suited kings, suited aces, a7o+, all pps, suited no gaps down to 45, suited one gaps 57 on up, any two cards over a 9. This might be a little loose, but it's not terribly loose and certainly that's a wide variety of hands.

I'll add though, if I know the games likely tough, like wpex or something, I'm probably a little more gunshy.

Nick Royale · #19 10-24-2006, 12:48 PM

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Even with these cards, if you play well post-flop, the steal isn't truly truly awful. A lot depends on the blinds. At a table full of unknowns I think this is not good and at an aggressive table with blinds who'll defend, it's pretty bad. Against a table full of rocks, it might be wonderful. Though overall, it's pretty rare at these low limit tables that you'll find both blinds folding often.

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Without any reads this preflop raise is far far from close, there are alot of hands I would start raise here before 52s that isn't even close against a table of unknown. Define awfull, bla bla bla...

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Basically what it comes down to is that I want to check-raise the flop because I feel the range of hands that I beat that will call + the range of better hands that I can fold on the turn after my flop check-raise is greater than the hands that have me dominated and will punish my flop c/r. Once you got 3-bet preflop, this is about as good a flop as you could ask for - no aces or kings, a flush draw, a pair...and the nature of the board is such that you can push your opponent to make mistakes.

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Agree about most of this. But we'll almost never get a better hand to fold here. 88 maybe 77, but that pretty much all of it. The main reason for this line is to get at least 1SB from him by checking the flop, then maybe trap him to call 1 more with the weaker part of his range. We have a very nice equity on this flop.