5/10 big draw - How to play it?

spex x · #1 10-23-2006, 11:56 AM

So I just started playing limit hold'em and I'd like to hear your opinions on how to play this hand. This was at a 5/10 limit game. I'm mostly interested in how to play the flop, but comments appreciated on all streets. I don't think I played any street very well, which is why I decided to post the hand.

I was CO and everyone folded to me. I had 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and I raised to steal the blinds. The button reraised, and getting about 6.5:1, I called (7.5 sb). The flop came down Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. I check called.

The turn came a blank, maybe 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. I check raised here, but I know it was a mistake. Villian called. The river blanked and I check/folded.

I think I should have led and reraised the flop, and check/called the turn. Any suggestions appreciated.

MoreWineII · #2 10-23-2006, 12:10 PM

In low limit games, you'll find the blinds will call quite often and you'll find yourself playing for a small pot with an inferior hand. Therefore, I would fold this preflop. Obviously who the blinds are matters, but against a table full of unknowns I would probably raise here with a suited ace, T9s on up, KTo on up, and a PP maybe 55 on up.

Now that you're here, I would check-raise this flop and lead most turns.

Nick Royale · #3 10-23-2006, 12:26 PM

Most often you should fold preflop. I would check/raise the flop and lead the turn. Any reads?

spex x · #4 10-23-2006, 12:27 PM

Why is it better to c/r the flop instead of leading? IMO, it is better to lead for the fold equity, plus if he raises I'm putting the same amount in as a c/r. I've got a good enough hand to go to the river anyways, but I'd prefer to take the pot down now than having to hit to win.

MoreWineII · #5 10-23-2006, 12:50 PM

Almost nobody is 3-betting preflop and folding to a single flop bet so you've got very little fold equity here. Besides that flop gave you a nice value on your hand, you might even be ahead with your pair - what better time to extract bets from worse hands knowing almost for certain your opponent is going to bet if checked to?

I believe a flop check-raise followed by a turn lead gives you both the best value and the best folding equity.

If you're raised on the turn you can call and check-fold the river UI imo.

spex x · #6 10-23-2006, 01:09 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Most often you should fold preflop. I would check/raise the flop and lead the turn. Any reads?

[/ QUOTE ]

You mean the steal was a bad idea, or the call after reraised? No reads, I'd only played a few hands at the table.

spex x · #7 10-23-2006, 01:11 PM

I see, thanks for the comments.

Nick Royale · #8 10-23-2006, 01:13 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Why is it better to c/r the flop instead of leading? IMO, it is better to lead for the fold equity

[/ QUOTE ]
If he's folding it's with a hand we don't want him to fold, and against which we probably would have extracted 1-2SB from if we had check/raised.

[ QUOTE ]
plus if he raises I'm putting the same amount in as a c/r.

[/ QUOTE ]
If he raises our flop bet he's ahead much more often than if we check/raise and get called. So by betting out we're getting 1SB in when we're ahead and 2SB in when behind (a bit simplyfied). The problem with getting 3-bet on the flop is really small since we're most often having an equity of 40-50%.

Nick Royale · #9 10-23-2006, 01:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Most often you should fold preflop. I would check/raise the flop and lead the turn. Any reads?

[/ QUOTE ]

You mean the steal was a bad idea, or the call after reraised? No reads, I'd only played a few hands at the table.

[/ QUOTE ]
The steal was a bad idea, I like the call.

edit: btw, with no reads at all the steal was pretty horrible

MoreWineII · #10 10-23-2006, 04:44 PM

Even with these cards, if you play well post-flop, the steal isn't truly truly awful. A lot depends on the blinds. At a table full of unknowns I think this is not good and at an aggressive table with blinds who'll defend, it's pretty bad. Against a table full of rocks, it might be wonderful. Though overall, it's pretty rare at these low limit tables that you'll find both blinds folding often.

Basically what it comes down to is that I want to check-raise the flop because I feel the range of hands that I beat that will call + the range of better hands that I can fold on the turn after my flop check-raise is greater than the hands that have me dominated and will punish my flop c/r. Once you got 3-bet preflop, this is about as good a flop as you could ask for - no aces or kings, a flush draw, a pair...and the nature of the board is such that you can push your opponent to make mistakes.