TPTK, best line?

[SNOWBALL]

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10-20 in AC. 10 handed for this hand. Game is a little tight right now, maybe 3-4 to flop on average, not much post flop action.

I get A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] in MP. EP limps (seen him limp J8o from MP; limping too many hands to be very good). I raise. New player to my immediate left (MP2) (20'sish white kid) 3-bets (its like his 3rd hand). SB folds. BB calls (loose-passive, definite donator). EP calls. I call. 4 to flop for 12.5 SB.

Flop Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. BB checks. EP checks.

What is my best line here and what should I do, given various responses by MP2 and the rest of the table, for the rest of the hand?

Thank you for your comments.

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I think you should checkraise and get the donators in there to pad the pot. They will pay the max for their silly hands. Betting will either let the donators draw cheap for one bet, or will just get your HU against a better hand.

[RobA]

I really appreciate everyone's comments.

Entity, PJ, Snowball and AaronW all said CR. Ssmallz (i'm suprised cuz you seem to like to CR a lot) and DRBK2 said bet out.

I bet out the flop, Villain called, one doanator called, and the other folded.

The Turn was a brick. Check to me, I bet, fold, fold. It felt like a pretty small pot i was raking in considering the pre-flop action, and how good the flop was for me.

My default in most situations when I'm confused is to not be tricky, and I consider CR more tricky than betting out. I also assumed the Villain behind me had AK. And I assumed that he would check his AK if I checked. (I would in that spot a decent amount). So I bet. When he folded on the turn he said "AQ?". I think he did have AK.

My thinking was sort of paranoid/overly negative in thinking "he has AK and he's gonna check, so I better bet now or I'm screwed". I should have thought he has TT (6), JJ (6) and AK (12). And he's got AA (3), KK (6), QQ (3). (I know I'm leaving out AJs, KQs, 99, and AQ but those are less likely.) So he's got 24 combos I'm WA, and he's gonna bet these maybe 3/4 of the time (TT and JJ always, AK 50%). And he's got only 12 combos that I'm WB. I think that makes it a clear CR. It seems a fine play against the villain's range and probable action, but more importanly I'm going to pull in a lot, lot more of the donator money with the CR.

A lot of you guys made that point. I thought i'd spell it out one more time. Thanks for your good comments.

[RossSi]

Quote:

Rob, I don't see the BDFD but I agree with a checkraise. This is a super dry flop. Only if BB managed to dive in with 54s does anyone have more than 3-4 outs against us when we're ahead. I like getting a lot of chips in our pot.



Weird, I swear when I first saw this the post said AQ. Anyway I still like a checkraise.

Rob

The BDFD is very back door. You have to want to see it. Usually only getting there by 6th street [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[Mr Rick]

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My thinking was sort of paranoid/overly negative in thinking "he has AK and he's gonna check, so I better bet now or I'm screwed". I should have thought he has TT (6), JJ (6) and AK (12). And he's got AA (3), KK (6), QQ (1) . (I know I'm leaving out AJs, KQs, 99, and AQ but those are less likely.) So he's got 24 combos I'm WA, and he's gonna bet these maybe 3/4 of the time (TT and JJ always, AK 50%). And he's got only 10 combos that I'm WB.

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The problem with leading out in a WA/WB situation after having raised pre-flop is that you make your hand obvious and easy to play against. He can call once and see if you bet out the turn when he is behind for a fairly easy fold, and he can wait to pop you until the turn or river when he is ahead.

You are in ideal position for the flop C/R. If he re-raises and bets the turn you may even be able to get away from the hand UI.

If he checks through the flop, this isn't so bad either. It makes everybody else's gut shot draw they hit on the turn worse to draw to when you bet out the turn. And you may draw a semi-bluff bet from BB or EP with a lower pair.

[ssmallz]

Rob,

After talkin to surdoc and reading the other responses, I'm on teh c/r'ing camp. I think its truly superior to betting out b/c there are a lot of hands this guy w/c-bet with that we are ahead of and we can trap another player drawing slim to dead

[RobA]

[ QUOTE ]
Rob,

After talkin to surdoc and reading the other responses, I'm on teh c/r'ing camp. I think its truly superior to betting out b/c there are a lot of hands this guy w/c-bet with that we are ahead of and we can trap another player drawing slim to dead

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thanks for the comment. that is the consensus take home point here. C/R b/c villain will be betting TT, JJ and most importantly, AK, enough.

[DcifrThs]

this is an auto c'r/call down if 3 bet for me.

Barron

[jskills]

Normally in these cases, you simply want to get HU vs. a guy who hopefully has AK or a lower pocket pair than Queens. But this is a pretty dry board, so your immediate concern is not about who is drawing to what. It's simply "am I ahead or not?".

I actually like check raising the flop here. Even is some others get trapped in the middle, it's not really too bad for you is it?

If he 3-bets the flop then you're in a tough spot (maybe calldown land?) It's hard to know how to play vs unknown players and I usually will not fold TPTK on board like this.