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#11
10-25-2007, 11:16 AM
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Re: 10-20 Foxwoods hand against typical 10-20 old Fox.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Turn= Raise. Any more action = fold. [/ QUOTE ] yuck turn = call and re-evaluate river. depending on villian i could fold a lot of river cards. [/ QUOTE ] turn raise is pretty standard in live play, most "turn donks" are draws, but it is read dependant, when im at a game, i always figure out what a "turn donk" means by every player who does it, but with no info im raising 100% of time and folding to a 3 bet at foxwoods, online the pots are usually heads up and players are crazy, so id prolly just let him bluff his chips off 
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#12
10-25-2007, 12:41 PM
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Re: 10-20 Foxwoods hand against typical 10-20 old Fox.
If this bb player is "Fox" then this turn donk is NOT a draw. He has J8 at worse (89 ~5% of the time). Depending on how he views you he may go for a C/R with 2pair (I know he would against me). I call the Turn and fold the River Unimproved.
The J on the River with him still betting puts away the thought that he has 89. We are beat, but I still call because I play bad.
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#13
10-25-2007, 02:36 PM
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Re: 10-20 Foxwoods hand against typical 10-20 old Fox.
My experience of turn donks @ FW 10/20 is they are looking for a raise so they can 3-bet. River donks are to possibly get a fold with a mediocre hand or draw that didn't come in...
That said it depends on the player. There are several I would fold to on the turn. Barring a read, I call turn and re-evaluate on river. In this case I call the river and when I lose, explain how bad I am at poker.
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#14
10-25-2007, 04:18 PM
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Re: 10-20 Foxwoods hand against typical 10-20 old Fox.
[ QUOTE ]
My experience of turn donks @ FW 10/20 is they are looking for a raise so they can 3-bet. River donks are to possibly get a fold with a mediocre hand or draw that didn't come in... That said it depends on the player. There are several I would fold to on the turn. Barring a read, I call turn and re-evaluate on river. In this case I call the river and when I lose, explain how bad I am at poker. [/ QUOTE ] at 20-40+ they are never looking to B3B, so I doubt they are at 10-20 because Foxwoods is just a pool of terrible players at every level who never get better. online everyone is looking to B3B but since everyone knows it u have to figure out what level u/they are on. If it is "Fox" then Id say u prolly are beat but its read dependant. If u raised the river, this guy would hold his cards up, show his neighbor his str8, and make a crying call.
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#15
10-25-2007, 04:26 PM
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Re: 10-20 Foxwoods hand against typical 10-20 old Fox.
If villain will ever 3-bet with 2 pair, raising is terrible. If not, quite standard.
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#16
10-26-2007, 03:13 PM
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Re: 10-20 Foxwoods hand against typical 10-20 old Fox.
Thank you. Most interesting is what type of advocates raising verse calling. I think this turn better has either a str8 or 2 pair. The set seems unlikely, but a draw or pair+draw is virtually nonexistant for this guy's stereotype.
does he have the str8 or 2-pair more often? I should ask him for his range. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
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#17
10-26-2007, 03:58 PM
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Re: 10-20 Foxwoods hand against typical 10-20 old Fox.
A lot of the replies here are just plain wrong against the typical tight 10-20 FW player. Many of the older regulars are really easy to read, and against some I'm more than willing to drop TP/TK on the turn here. Raising is giving away 2 bets, or maybe a couple hours work if you will. Note I said some of them.
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#18
10-27-2007, 03:37 AM
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Re: 10-20 Foxwoods hand against typical 10-20 old Fox.
Even fold it for one bet in a pot this large?
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#19
10-27-2007, 05:02 AM
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Re: 10-20 Foxwoods hand against typical 10-20 old Fox.
[ QUOTE ]
A lot of the replies here are just plain wrong against the typical tight 10-20 FW player. Many of the older regulars are really easy to read, and against some I'm more than willing to drop TP/TK on the turn here. Raising is giving away 2 bets, or maybe a couple hours work if you will. Note I said some of them. [/ QUOTE ] the bottom line is it is read dependant, the foxwoods game is so easy that a turn-donk is a laydown or a raise, u just got to find out early in the session what it means. When i am in a new casino, i pay close atttention and look at big streets closely and i tell my students at foxwoods, find out what each players turn action is ( what is the turn donk mean, what does each turn raise mean), if i get raised on the turn and i have tp/tk i will threw it away against 95%+ of foxwoods players, but if it is Sergio, Gene, Josh , Doc Jose etc i have to look these players up. Also, i knew the guy Bill (initials bk also, who plays the 10 and 20 games) is a weak tight older player but his turn donk is 100% a draw, and for him i raise it 100% of time. If i have no reads im raising and i think it usually works out to be the correct play. This game is so easy because of reads on players that i mucked qq preflop because these guys are so predictable.
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#20
10-27-2007, 10:10 AM
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Re: 10-20 Foxwoods hand against typical 10-20 old Fox.
[ QUOTE ]
Even fold it for one bet in a pot this large? [/ QUOTE ] Yes. As a general example, If your read is that you're beat 95% of the time in a 10 BB pot, you fold. And I fully understand say, Miller's advice about not folding in large pots, but there comes a point where you have to trust your reads and correctly estimate your chances, and save bets where appropriate.
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